Leave us alone

[Youkilledkenny]

Big proponent here of 'live and let live'. So long as your actions don't directly impact me & my family in a negative way, I don't much care how you live your life.
If you want to talk to burning bushes, have at it.
If you want to shop only on Sunday, go for it.
Mary and Beth that lives on the other side of the country wants to get married? Better you than me so enjoy.
Want to smoke 172 packs of cigs a day? Gross but ok - just don't blow the smoke on me.
If you wasn't to stand on your roof on one leg in a purple dress waiting for the cashmul equinox knock yourself out.
Why is it that Christians find the need to make society that we all share (muslim, jew, agnostic, atheists, satanists, scientologists, worshippers of the blood diamond - whatever) try to fit their paradigm?
Is it arrogance in thinking your way is the only right way?
Are you trying to make the world a 'better place'?
Do you just like forcing your beliefs on others thinking it will but you into God's good graces and eventually heaven?
Or are you hiding behind a belief in order to be a jerk?

Why can't you, the Christian, live and answer for your life while allowing everyone else to do the same?
What makes your life and belief so special that it supersedes everyone else's?

[tam]

[Replying to post 40 by Blastcat]

Nothing is odd, because the platinum rule has a very big weakness.


"I want to be treated with respect and awe. I want you to treat me as though I am perfect, and I want you to obey my every command; I want you to never argue with me and always agree with me. When I ask you for something, I want you to get it for me.


That is how I want to be treated.


I want to be on a debate forum and I want everyone to treat me as though I am right all the time; in fact I want to be treated as though I am the expert in everything."


(Ok, so I would absolutely HATE to be treated like that... but there are some people out there who DO want to be treated like that. According to the platinum rule, you have to do that for them)


THINKING gets me to understand that according to the golden rule, if I do not want to be forced into eating or doing or believing or saying something, then I cannot force someone else into eating or doing or believing or saying something. If I want to be shown respect when discussing my faith, then I must show respect to others when discussing their faith.

If I would like to be shown respect in general (which does not mean agreement), I must show respect to others also.



THINKING shows me immediately the error in your platinum rule. Because some people want to be treated in a way that will infringe upon mine and others' rights and well being.




The golden rule is not surpassed by the platinum rule.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Clownboat]

Racism is against the Jehovah's Witnesse religion. It's part of our worship to love all races of people regardless ofor skin colour.

JW, there is only one race of humans. You claim to not be racist, while separating humans into different races based on nothing but their skin color. Much like the KKK.

You are right, I was wrong to refer to races as if humans do not have a common ancestry. Thank you for pointing that out I absolutely accept I was wrong to use the term in such a way; I should have referred to "nationalities" or "ethnic groups"

I was wrong to use the expression "race"* as it could be misconstrued.

It is part of our religion to love all human beings no matter which part of the world they are born, what language they speak and regardless of their skin colour or physical features.

I commend you...

That is great that you should love all humans beings. Perhaps we can test this love in a real life scenario?

Would you, as a JW be able to go fishing with me for example and be able to tell others in your congregation about it without any issue whatsoever?

IF, you claim to love all humans, yet would not be willing or able to even go fishing with me, imagine how this claimed 'love' will appear from the outside when there is so much exclusion. Actions speak louder than words as they say.

Again, I don't doubt that you are great person with love and compassion for our fellow humans. I do worry how this claimed love is perceived when JW's are so exclusive of others... until/if they become JW's themselves of course.

I don't doubt that JW doctrine tells you to love all. I just question this 'love' when discussing real life events like fishing with a fellow human that is not a JW.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 41 by tam]


[center]

Since tam likes it, everybody should[/center]

I want to be on a debate forum and I want everyone to treat me as though I am right all the time; in fact I want to be treated as though I am the expert in everything."

That's nice.
YOU want to be treated that way... Its really good to know.

Just because we might agree doesn't mean we always will, tam.
You might LOVE to be preached to for example.

I MIGHT NOT


I say.. leave us alone with that

[tam]

[Replying to post 41 by tam]


[center]

Since tam likes it, everybody should[/center]

I want to be on a debate forum and I want everyone to treat me as though I am right all the time; in fact I want to be treated as though I am the expert in everything."

That's nice.
YOU want to be treated that way... Its really good to know.

Just because we might agree doesn't mean we always will, tam.
You might LOVE to be preached to for example.

I MIGHT NOT

Did you read my whole post, Blastcat?


Peace again!

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 42 by Clownboat]


Jehovah's Witnesses are selective about who we choose as intimate associates, that is true; we are protective of the physical and spiritual well being of ourselves and especially for our children. That does not mean that we do not associate with non-believers, that we are exclusive in who we speak or spend time with or that we do not show love and compassion for non-witnesses.

In short if we were friends and I would have no problem going fishing with you; just as I'm sure if we were friends you would have no problem joining me at a Jehovah's Witnesses gatherings or event

JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 44 by tam]

Did you read my whole post, Blastcat?

Nope.. I stopped there.
Lets deal with one thing at a time.

I sometimes reply to EACH and every utterance from my interlocutor.
I've begun to realize that not everyone replies to MY replies and so on.

So, I'm experimenting with a new technique.
And that is, as SOON as I find a snag.. I stop right there.


I am TRYING to reduce the awful LENGTH of my posts.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 40 by Blastcat]

Nothing is odd, because the platinum rule has a very big weakness.

"I want to be treated with respect and awe. I want you to treat me as though I am perfect, and I want you to obey my every command; I want you to never argue with me and always agree with me. When I ask you for something, I want you to get it for me.

That is how I want to be treated.

I want to be on a debate forum and I want everyone to treat me as though I am right all the time; in fact I want to be treated as though I am the expert in everything."

(Ok, so I would absolutely HATE to be treated like that... but there are some people out there who DO want to be treated like that. According to the platinum rule, you have to do that for them)

The golden rule is not surpassed by the platinum rule.

Not at all. The Platinum rule does not say we MUST treat a person the way they want to be treated. Neither is the golden rule saying we MUST do unto others as we would have them do unto us. It's simply a guideline.

We are not expected to violate our own principles or hurt ourselves to follow any of those two rules.

Your logic would also apply to the golden rule.


"I want to be treated with respect and awe. I want you to treat me as though I am perfect, and I want you to obey my every command; I want you to never argue with me and always agree with me. When I ask you for something, I want you to get it for me."

Thus if we apply the golden rule then we should treat everyone else with respect and awe (what if they are a despicable person?), we should obey everyone elses commands (really should we even if they want us to sin?) We should never argue with anyone (seriously? Even when their actions would be harmful to others?), we should always agree with everyone (what if they are blatantly wrong?) We should give everyone everything they ask for? (Are you serious? What if they want you to have sex with them?)

so the golden rule fails in exactly the same way you claim the platinum rule fails.

The platinum rule is way superior. It gets us to think about the differences in others. It gets us to realise that not everyone thinks like we do.

THINKING gets me to understand that according to the golden rule, if I do not want to be forced into eating or doing or believing or saying something, then I cannot force someone else into eating or doing or believing or saying something. If I want to be shown respect when discussing my faith, then I must show respect to others when discussing their faith.

The golden rule only gets you to think about whats important to you and then impose your values onto others. It presumes everyone is like you.

If I would like to be shown respect in general (which does not mean agreement), I must show respect to others also.

And exactly what forms of respect should we be employing here? You will find that what is respect to one person is not considered respect to another. How do we apply the golden rule so that we don't unintentionally disrespect someone?

For instance, we might come from a culture where it is disrespectful to burp at a table after having eaten a wonderful meal. However in another culture it would be disrespectful NOT to burp after a wonderful meal.

If we apply the golden rule in this situation, we've just offended our hosts. If we apply the platinum rule, we have respected our hosts.

With the platinum rule we have it sussed. We understand that other people want to be respected and we look at THEIR values. We look and we see what they would consider respect and we change our own behaviour to suit.

It's the platinum rule that allows us to fit in with other cultures. If we applied the golden rule, we wouldn't fit into other cultures quite so well.

When we impose the golden rule on other cultures we often end up violated other cultures.

THINKING shows me immediately the error in your platinum rule. Because some people want to be treated in a way that will infringe upon mine and others' rights and well being.

Thinking should show you that the error you see in the platinum rule is ten times more of a problem when it comes to the golden rule. With the golden rule you are forcing your values onto others. That is why we have seen religions like Christianity crush many other religions, because they think everyone should think the way they do.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 45 by JehovahsWitness]

[center]


Always on the God job[/center]

or spend time with or that we do not show love and compassion for non-witnesses.

In short if we were friends and I would have no problem going fishing with you; just as I'm sure if we were friends you would have no problem joining Jehovah's Witnesses for one of their gatherings

That's ridiculous.

Sorry, but to equate FISHING with GOING TO A RELIGIOUS SERVICE?

If you want to be friends with an atheists, don't try to convert. It gets really really really BORING and ANNOYING.

Enjoy the fishing.

[center]
LEAVE US ALONE, why can't you?[/center]

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 42 by Clownboat]


Jehovah's Witnesses are selective about who we choose as intimate associates, that is true; we are protective of the physical and spiritual well being of ourselves and especially for our children. That does not mean that we do not associate with non-believers, that we are exclusive in who we speak or spend time with or that we do not show love and compassion for non-witnesses.

In short if we were friends and I would have no problem going fishing with you; just as I'm sure if we were friends you would have no problem joining me at a Jehovah's Witnesses gatherings or event

JW

Good to hear.

The same cannot be said of the JW I worked with for years. He got dis-fellowshipped over a drinking incident and his JW friends could no longer fish, much less even associate with him outside of church.

He recently got re-felloshipped and came in to tell me (he doesn't work for me anymore) that he got his friends back. He was so happy after being alone for so long.

Personally, I find it loving to reach out to those that are struggling. Shunning a person in need does not seem loving. He got through it in the end and I assume he believes that a god helped him. From the outside though, it appears to me that he was abandoned by those that should have been there for him.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 49 by Clownboat]

That's sad to hear, but even as work associates we are not privy to the intimate details of people's lives; we know what they chose to share with us. I cannot comment on individual's lives, only on my own.

JW