Does God cause evil?
Some assert that God causes no evil. Is there cause to believe this is true. Can this position be supported. Is the character described in the bible incapable of evil?
I would assert that a position that claims God created everything would make him the original cause of evil. That God cannot escape being the cause of evil since he created any and all situations in which evil would arise.
Does God cause evil?
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Does God cause evil?
Post #1Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #2The answer to this question depends on whether one believes that the Bible is true in all respects, whether the Bible is true in most, but not all respects, or whether one believes that the Bible has been corrupted by the "filthy little liar." Because the Bible plainly SAYS that God creates evil.DanieltheDragon wrote: Does God cause evil?
Some assert that God causes no evil. Is there cause to believe this is true. Can this position be supported. Is the character described in the bible incapable of evil?
I would assert that a position that claims God created everything would make him the original cause of evil. That God cannot escape being the cause of evil since he created any and all situations in which evil would arise.
Isaiah 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Some Christian Bibles have, understandably, chosen to translate the word "evil" in Isaiah 45 as something else. But the language of the original Hebrew is quite clear.
Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT)
Isa 45:7
"I Yahweh and·there-is-no further one-forming light and·one-creating darkness one-makingdo well-being and·one-creating evil I Yahweh one-makingdo all-of these"
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInte ... /isa45.pdf
So to claim that God has no connection to evil is to discredit the accuracy of the Bible.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.
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Post #3
Hmmm.
Assuming a God.
Is this creature capable of understanding evil?
If it could understand evil, than it could easily understand what would cause evil, the circumstances that are necessary to create evil.
If it could do that, it is capable of preventing evil.
So, given this approach, and God's purported powers, one must conclude evil was part of the plan, and thus, yes, God caused evil.
Assuming a God.
Is this creature capable of understanding evil?
If it could understand evil, than it could easily understand what would cause evil, the circumstances that are necessary to create evil.
If it could do that, it is capable of preventing evil.
So, given this approach, and God's purported powers, one must conclude evil was part of the plan, and thus, yes, God caused evil.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #5[Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]
QUESTION Does God cause evil?
Not according to the bible. God being entirely good is never the originator of evil. However God does allow wickedness and sometimes he manipulates negative evens in order to turn achieve positive ends but never creates or makes what is evil.
OBJECTION: Why would a loving God allow evil?
I have addressed this question before, here is the link.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975
QUESTION Does God cause evil?
Not according to the bible. God being entirely good is never the originator of evil. However God does allow wickedness and sometimes he manipulates negative evens in order to turn achieve positive ends but never creates or makes what is evil.
OBJECTION: Why would a loving God allow evil?
I have addressed this question before, here is the link.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975
OBJECTION: Does the bible not speak of God creating evil (Isaiah 45:7)?
The Hebrew ra (translated by some translations as 'evil' in Isaiah 45:7 in some translations, has a broad meaning and can according to context mean a) trouble or b)calamity (as in punishment or grief for wrong). Strong’s Dictionary shows that it is also rendered as “trouble,� “affliction,� and “adversity.� (# 7451, TWOT #2191)
ISAIAH 45:7
“I make well–being and create calamity.�--NKJV, ESV
“I bring prosperity and create disaster.�--NIV, NJB
Scofield: “Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.�
When referring to the Creator the word "evil" is not applicable.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #6[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]
Yes, but the Bible in this case isn't meant to be interpreted literally.
In that link you seem to have admitted that Satan has defeated God, utterly and irrevocably.
Why was't Satan destroyed immediately, and Eden restored?
Defeat of God
Yes, but the Bible in this case isn't meant to be interpreted literally.
In that link you seem to have admitted that Satan has defeated God, utterly and irrevocably.
Why was't Satan destroyed immediately, and Eden restored?
Defeat of God
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #7.
Right?
Thus, if any Bible says 'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things', that Bible is WRONG. Professional translators, scholars, theologians, editors, and revisionists involved in those Bible don't know how to properly convey 'what the Bible really says' -- but anonymous posters on an Internet Forum KNOW better.JehovahsWitness wrote: Not according to the bible. God being entirely good is never the originator of evil.
Right?
.
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #8JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]
QUESTION Does God cause evil?
Not according to the bible. God being entirely good is never the originator of evil. However God does allow wickedness and sometimes he manipulates negative evens in order to turn achieve positive ends but never creates or makes what is evil.
OBJECTION: Why would a loving God allow evil?
I have addressed this question before, here is the link.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 975#845975
OBJECTION: Does the bible not speak of God creating evil (Isaiah 45:7)?
The Hebrew ra (translated by some translations as 'evil' in Isaiah 45:7 in some translations, has a broad meaning and can according to context mean a) trouble or b)calamity (as in punishment or grief for wrong). Strong’s Dictionary shows that it is also rendered as “trouble,� “affliction,� and “adversity.� (# 7451, TWOT #2191)
ISAIAH 45:7
“I make well–being and create calamity.�--NKJV, ESV
“I bring prosperity and create disaster.�--NIV, NJB
Scofield: “Heb. "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.�
When referring to the Creator the word "evil" is not applicable.
The God who "make(s) peace, and create(s) evil: I the LORD do all these things," according to Isaiah 45, is also the source of all things. He is the Creator Being. "I the LORD do all these things." If all things are the creation of God, and if evil exists, then God must necessarily be the source. To declare otherwise is to declare that God failed[/u] to achieve His goals and things occurred which were beyond both His control and His intentions. Which contradicts the claim of omnipotence, probably the most basic component of God's claimed nature. There ticks at the heart of Christianity this logical conundrum of the perfect loving omnipotent Being who fails to achieve the results He intends to achieve. Claims which by their nature are self contradicting are also self cancelling. Because claims which contradict themselves are nonsense by definition.
To combat this problem believers have undertaken to simply declare it away. And so we are faced with an omnipotent Being who fails, and who becomes angry when things fail to turn out as He intended. Which is theologically illogical, but is a common component of ancient myth.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #9QUESTION: Does God's temporary permission of evil amount to a total and irrovocable defeat?Willum wrote:In that link you seem to have admitted that Satan has defeated God, utterly and irrevocably.
Absolutely not. That God has permitted evil for a specific reason does not mean that evil will triumph in the end. God in the very first book of the bible, foretold the destruction of Satan and the reparation of all the evil he has caused.
Satan will be defeated at what the bible calls Harmageddon, any harm he has caused will be repaired and God's original purpose that the descendents of Adam and Eve live on this planet earth in a garden like condition forever will be accomplished. Right on time.
JW
Further reading: What Is God’s Purpose for the Earth?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... h-mankind/
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Does God cause evil?
Post #10JehovahsWitness wrote:QUESTION: Does God's temporary permission of evil amount to a total and irrovocable defeat?Willum wrote:In that link you seem to have admitted that Satan has defeated God, utterly and irrevocably.
Absolutely not. That God has permitted evil for a specific reason does not mean that evil will triumph in the end. God in the very first book of the bible, foretold the destruction of Satan and the reparation of all the evil he has caused.
Satan will be defeated at what the bible calls Harmageddon, any harm he has caused will be repaired and God's original purpose that the descendents of Adam and Eve live on this planet earth in a garden like condition forever will be accomplished. Right on time.
JW
Exactly as you have simply declared it away in the above post.Tired of the Nonsense wrote: To combat this problem believers have undertaken to simply declare it away.
Because Jesus is going to return "someday." It's just that he never does. And there will be an end of the world and final judgement "someday." It's just that it never happens.
The ancient Mayans predicted the end of the world in 2012. That never happened either.
Harold Camping predicted the second coming of Christ and final judgement would occur in 1994. When it didn't occur he revised his estimate to 2011. Guess what?
Fortunately for the rest of us, the universe is not concerned with any particular human death wish. And everyone who lived 2,000 years ago is still quite reliably dead.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense on Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -- Albert Einstein -- Written in 1954 to Jewish philosopher Erik Gutkind.