Do you have the hope of going to heaven

[JehovahsWitness]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?



* My question is for people that do believe that a God exists, since I presume that those that do not believe in God do believe he exists anywhere and therefore there is no "heaven" where God is.

[Claire Evans]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I do not have a hope of going to heaven (when I speak of "heaven" I mean the spiritual abode/realm where God lives).

- Do you personally entertain the hope of going to heaven to spend eternity with God when you die? (if this question is too personal I respect if you do not want to share this information)

I once did as a Christian. In fact as a Christian I was convinced I was going to Heaven. There was no doubt in my mind.

It's sad for me now when I think about it. The belief in Heaven is no longer there. There is now no eternal life for me. This life on earth is all I have and I am most likely well over the half way mark. So much of my life was spent serving a God I now believe to be imaginary. It was heartbreaking for me when I lost my faith. Very difficult. It took a long time to get over. Even now, it saddens me to think that all my dreams of an afterlife have been shattered.

This is one reason why I can't believe there are Christians out there who believe that I wanted to rebel. That I chose to be an ex-Christian. It makes no sense at all. If it were a matter of desire I'd still be a Christian still believing I was looked after by God and was going to live forever. I can't see why anyone would not want to believe that.

- If so, do you believe such a literal spiritual realm exists?

As a Christian I most definitely did believe there was some other dimension which was Heaven that existed outside our earthly dimension. I wish I could believe it still.

- Do you believe that Jesus is presently in heaven where God exists?

I used to believe this without a doubt. I wish I could go back to believing it again, but it's impossible.

Why do you believe it is impossible to go back to believing?

[tam]

And He will return in the same way that He left.

Acts 1:11



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And in what "way" (or manner) did he leave?

Visibly.


But the point was, He will return.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

And He will return in the same way that He left.

Acts 1:11



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Absolutely. And how did he leave? The clouds caught him up out of their sight. They couldn't see him any more.

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him him OUT OF THEIR SIGHT." (Acts 1:9, KJV)



.

[tam]

[Replying to post 63 by onewithhim]

You miss the point.

They SAW Him going up... UNTIL... a cloud hid Him from their sight.


They SAW HIM go up. They will SEE HIM return.




Simply reverse the order for when He returns.


And of course, the point being made from the start: He does returns. And when He does, every eye will see Him. (just as the apostles saw Him ascend)


"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

Also look at what the angels actually SAID:


"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same [Jesus], who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have SEEN him go into heaven."


So to the question, 'in what way will He return?': In the same way that they SAW Him go into heaven.




Peace again!

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 63 by onewithhim]

You miss the point.

They SAW Him going up... UNTIL... a cloud hid Him from their sight.


They SAW HIM go up. They will SEE HIM return.




Simply reverse the order for when He returns.


And of course, the point being made from the start: He does returns. And when He does, every eye will see Him. (just as the apostles saw Him ascend)


"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

No, you miss the point. It is that the world will see him no more. He was taken from their sight, and he was changed back into a kind of body (spirit) that he needed to enter heaven, a realm of spirit. He will be "seen" by the mind's eye, as Jesus himself referred to in speaking to the Pharisees.

"After a little while the world will no longer see me." (John 14:19, NASB)

The world had seen the last of him with their physical eyes.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; for the heart of this people has become dull, with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes, otherwise they would see with their eyes...and UNDERSTAND with their heart and return, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes, because they see..." (Matthew 13:13-16, NASB)

Isn't Christ speaking about understanding? The same thing is meant in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7.


.

[JehovahsWitness]

And He will return in the same way that He left.

Acts 1:11



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And in what "way" (or manner) did he leave?

Visibly.

So when Jesus disappeared behind a cloud, he was visible was he?

[tam]

And He will return in the same way that He left.

Acts 1:11



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

And in what "way" (or manner) did he leave?

Visibly.

So when Jesus disappeared behind a cloud, he was visible was he?

Of course not, but as He was going UP (the same way in which He will return) He was visible.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[tam]

[Replying to post 63 by onewithhim]

You miss the point.

They SAW Him going up... UNTIL... a cloud hid Him from their sight.


They SAW HIM go up. They will SEE HIM return.




Simply reverse the order for when He returns.


And of course, the point being made from the start: He does returns. And when He does, every eye will see Him. (just as the apostles saw Him ascend)


"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

No, you miss the point. It is that the world will see him no more. He was taken from their sight, and he was changed back into a kind of body (spirit) that he needed to enter heaven, a realm of spirit. He will be "seen" by the mind's eye, as Jesus himself referred to in speaking to the Pharisees.

"After a little while the world will no longer see me." (John 14:19, NASB)

The world had seen the last of him with their physical eyes.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; for the heart of this people has become dull, with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes, otherwise they would see with their eyes...and UNDERSTAND with their heart and return, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes, because they see..." (Matthew 13:13-16, NASB)

Isn't Christ speaking about understanding? The same thing is meant in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7.


.

Sometimes seeing refers to understanding, sometimes seeing refers to literally seeing.


When the apostles saw Christ ascending (until a cloud hid him from their sight), they weren't seeing Him in their 'mind's eye'. They weren't seeing, as in understanding.

They were literally seeing Him.


They will see Him return in the SAME way. As the text states.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 63 by onewithhim]

You miss the point.

They SAW Him going up... UNTIL... a cloud hid Him from their sight.


They SAW HIM go up. They will SEE HIM return.




Simply reverse the order for when He returns.


And of course, the point being made from the start: He does returns. And when He does, every eye will see Him. (just as the apostles saw Him ascend)


"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

No, you miss the point. It is that the world will see him no more. He was taken from their sight, and he was changed back into a kind of body (spirit) that he needed to enter heaven, a realm of spirit. He will be "seen" by the mind's eye, as Jesus himself referred to in speaking to the Pharisees.

"After a little while the world will no longer see me." (John 14:19, NASB)

The world had seen the last of him with their physical eyes.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; for the heart of this people has become dull, with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes, otherwise they would see with their eyes...and UNDERSTAND with their heart and return, and I would heal them.' But blessed are your eyes, because they see..." (Matthew 13:13-16, NASB)

Isn't Christ speaking about understanding? The same thing is meant in Matthew 24:30 & Revelation 1:7.


.

Sometimes seeing refers to understanding, sometimes seeing refers to literally seeing.

Precisely, and since Jesus said that the world would literally see him no more, and considering that he spoke of "seeing" as understanding in the Scripture I provided, we can scripturally come to the conclusion that Jesus' coming will be "seen" by means of people's understanding that he has returned. They won't be able to miss the fact, because of all the signs that he spoke about, e.g., at Matthew 24:20-31 and Luke 21:25,26. Why would a "sign" be needed if he could literally be seen?

And also, once again, the Scripture actually says that Jesus will come back the same way he went to heaven---"he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their vision." (Acts 1:9)


.