Fill er' up

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DanieltheDragon
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Fill er' up

Post #1

Post by DanieltheDragon »

For debate:


What does being filled with the Holy Spirit mean to you?

Is Christianity unified in its meaning?
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.

Elijah John
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Re: Fill er' up

Post #11

Post by Elijah John »

Justin108 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
True Christians are indeed unified in their understanding of what holy spirit is, we believe it to be God's active force or power.
Translation: "I am a true Christian and everyone who disagrees with me isn't"
So, JW, Trinitarians are not "true Christians"? Funny, that is what many of them say about your group.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Justin108
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Re: Fill er' up

Post #12

Post by Justin108 »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Justin108 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
True Christians are indeed unified in their understanding of what holy spirit is, we believe it to be God's active force or power.
Translation: "I am a true Christian and everyone who disagrees with me isn't"
I cannot judge anyone else but yes, I do believe that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES have the truth and that we are true Christians is part of our official beliefs. As I said, we all (8 million) agree that God's spirit is His active force. Again part of the official teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. Others will have to speak for themselves, I can only speak for myself and my religion.


JW
By making the claim that true Christians are unified in their understanding, you are effectively excluding anyone who does not share this unified belief. Ergo, you are saying non-Jehovah's Witnesses are not true Christians. I would consider this as "judging other people".

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JehovahsWitness
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Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: It's the same as arguing atheists can't be moral.
I don't think anyone is arguing that here. Morality is to an extent inborn, if it weren't there would be no police force in the world large enough to keep public order.

JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Fill er' up

Post #14

Post by ttruscott »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

True Christians are indeed unified in their understanding of what holy spirit is, we believe it to be God's active force or power. The bible says God uses this power or force inmany different ways.
Well, thanks JW for just defining me out of being a true Christian because I think He is a divine person of the Trinity named YHWH...not an impersonal force.

Did you really just define your Church as the only true believers?
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Fill er' up

Post #15

Post by ttruscott »

Justin108 wrote:By making the claim that true Christians are unified in their understanding, you are effectively excluding anyone who does not share this unified belief. Ergo, you are saying non-Jehovah's Witnesses are not true Christians. I would consider this as "judging other people".
I'd say he is judging our ideas and doctrine, not us as people...though he may be. Christians are called to judge: John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.� Many for instance seem to be running on folk lore about Christianity, not on any real Bible study.

In law:
Leviticus 19:15 'You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.

Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. proves that the ability to distinguish good from evil is desirable, as per 1 Kings 3:9 So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. and Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. proves that if you were to judge for evil and turn the process upside down you will be harshly dealt with, by a WOE! coming your way...
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Fill er' up

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

ttruscott wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by DanieltheDragon]

True Christians are indeed unified in their understanding of what holy spirit is, we believe it to be God's active force or power. The bible says God uses this power or force inmany different ways.
Well, thanks JW for just defining me out of being a true Christian because I think He is a divine person of the Trinity named YHWH...not an impersonal force.

Did you really just define your Church as the only true believers?

No, I said the only true religion on earth at this time; the only religion through which God is accepting worship. The only group God is using to fulfill his will and purpose at this moment in time: True Christianity.

It's not a judgment on individuals, each person JW or not will stand or fall before their maker. Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is no guarantee of salvation, neither is not being one automatic condemnation. But my belief is that there is only one True Christian "church" on earth and we are it. That's what I believe and is also one of the official teachings of the JWs.

I have written on this subject before, perhaps you missed it; here is the link
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 51#p848551

JW


Jehovah's Witnesses believe the trinity is a complete falsehood. It's in my opinion an lie and an ugly one at that.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... y-trinity/



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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , THE TRUE RELIGION and ...EXCLUSIVITY OF SALVATION
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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OnceConvinced
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Post #17

Post by OnceConvinced »

Elijah John wrote: I know and have encountered many who manifest these qualities.

But not in Christians alone...I have encountered the same fruits of the Spirit in Jews and Muslims too. And yes, even in atheists.
Indeed. Even Atheists seem to have the holy spirit in them. I would have to say my current partner has the fruits of the holy spirit. Very much so. And she's atheist.
Elijah John wrote: Is it possible that God's Holy Spirit is not confined by the walls of ideology, theology, doctrine or dogma?
It could just be that the holy spirit is non-existent. To me that's the most likely answer, after all the bible assures us that all it takes it to ask and the holy spirit will be given.

Luke 11:11-13 Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?"

So here we have a promise from Jesus himself. So any Christian who asks is guaranteed to receive it. And once received should surely start to manifest the fruits if the holy spirit is something real and not just a fantasy?

We are also guaranteed the holy spirit if we repent and are baptised.

Acts: 2:38 Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’�

These acts alone are a guarantee one will receive the gift of the holy spirit.

So it should be a basic thing that every Christian should have in them. However the scriptures are quite clear that if you do have the holy spirit, you will exhibit the fruits.

These are pretty much promises and assurances that the bible has made. So if all it takes is repentance and baptism... or asking... there should be no problem. The fact that there is a problem should be enough proof to show us the holy spirit is most likely non-existent and is just a figment of a wild imagination.

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Post #18

Post by OnceConvinced »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

Just because the fruit of the Spirit is X doesn't mean others can't display X. It's the same as arguing atheists can't be moral.

The Spirit is only in people in relationship with God.

The holy spirit is given to those who ask. Luke 11:11-13 . This is a promise. A guarantee.

Also will be given to those who repent and are baptised. Acts 2:38

The holy spirit is a guarantee for anyone who does one of those two things above.
Wootah wrote: However I agree with Z. Many Christians are not allowing the Spirit to rule their lives
Then why give any credit to the holy spirit at all?

The holy spirit is supposed to do more than just guiding and convicting (John 16:8-13). It is way more than that:

Imparts power, boldness and strength (Eph 3:16)
Will teach all things and bring all things to remembrance. (John 14:26)

If the holy spirit is not achieving these things and Christians are not exhibiting the fruits, then why should anyone believe that the holy spirit is a real entity?

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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Post #19

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Is being 'filled with the Holy Spirit' comparable to inflating a beach ball -- rather flat to start, fill with a lot of air, potential to over-inflate?

People who are only average after being given special wisdom and knowledge supernaturally must have been 'rather flat' before being helped -- then apparently risk developing over-inflated of personal wisdom and knowledge once they believe they have been 'filled with the Holy Spirit'.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Post #20

Post by OnceConvinced »

It seems to be one of those things like wisdom. The bible promises that God will give it when asked. Funny how that when people ask for wisdom or the holy spirit they seem to be the same as they were before. No great metamorphosis of any kind. They are pretty much the same people with the same amount of wisdom and insight. The same fruits too.

I have never come across any person who has been radically changed by Christ in all the years I've been rubbing shoulders with Christians. ie suddenly gone from foolish to wise or "non-fruitful" to "fruitful". I've seen people work on this stuff and gradually improve themselves based on their own efforts. I've certainly heard many testimonies from people who claim to have been radically changed. However I've never seen any radical changes in anyone myself.

If all this stuff is real. If the holy spirit is real, we should all be seeing radical changes in behaviour and wisdom amongst people who have become Christians. How many of us actually do see that and how often?

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World

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