Is this an accurate belief?

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polonius
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Is this an accurate belief?

Post #1

Post by polonius »

https://carm.org/cut-jw reports that the Jehovah Witnesses believe that only Jehovah Witnesses can be saved.

Only JW church members will be saved (Reference: The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1979, p. 30)

Is this an actual Jehovah Witness doctrine?

Does anyone have a copy of this Watchtower edition or is it on the web?

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Re: Is this an accurate belief?

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote: https://carm.org/cut-jw reports that the Jehovah Witnesses believe that only Jehovah Witnesses can be saved.

This is NOT a Jehovah's Witness belief. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that only those individuals that are part of the modern day organization of Jehovah's Witnesses will survive the coming destruction of Armageddon.

Moreover Jehovah's Witnesses believe that there will be millions of people that were never part of our organization that will certainly be in paradise.


Here is the OFFICIAL statement on this matter from the JW website - click on picture to enlarge
Image
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 13, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Is this an accurate belief?

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by polonius.advice]



Only JW church members will be saved (Reference: The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1979, p. 30)

Are you suggesting that the words before the brackets are a quotation*? I have this magazine in front of me now and those words do not appear anywhere on that page. May I suggest you look to a more reliable source.

* For clarity it is always best to use ---> "quotation marks" < ---when quoting. Quotation marks are the two small dashes that appear at the beginning and the end of words taken directly from a source and make it easier to differentiate between a comentary and the actual words of the author being referred to


Is this an actual Jehovah Witness doctrine?

No. See above.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses so well placed to say what we currently believe. Jehovah's Witnesses also have a website where you can check our beliefs.

LINK Offiicial Jehovah's Witness website
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/

Image


Does anyone have a copy of this Watchtower edition...?


Yes I do

... is it on the web?

Probably.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

polonius
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Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #4

Post by polonius »

So are you saying that Jehovah Witnesses do not believe that they will be the only ones saved?

Let’s look at some other JW publications and what they are claiming.

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/salvatio ... nesses.php

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

"In the near future this generation will see the foretold “great tribulation� that will bring an end to this present wicked system. (Matt. 24:21) At that time none of Jehovah’s faithful servants, the only ones surviving, will mourn over the destruction of the wicked. To the contrary, they will rejoice, even as Moses and his people rejoiced at the destruction of Pharaoh and his army." Watchtower 1977 Jun 1 p.345

"The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4

"An even greater mistake would be to allow the faults of others to stumble us and cause us to leave Jehovah's organization. Were that to happen, we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed pp.25-26

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organization that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

"Any person who wants to survive into God's righteous new order urgently needs to come into a right relationship with Jehovah and His earthly organization now….Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 pp.16-17

Are you going to claim that they were all misquoted?

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:Let’s look at some other JW publications and what they are claiming.
Yes let's...
"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19
Jehovah's Witnesss believe the only ORGANIZATION that will survive the coming destructon of Armageddon will be ours.

QUESTION: Does the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses believe only their ORGANIZATION will survive Harmageddon not constitute a belief that no other individuals outside their organization will survive?

No, the survival of an organization is not to be equated with the destiny of those that work elsewhere.
To illustrate: If a financial crash resulted in the collapse of all companies except say MICROSOFT this doesn't mean everyone that works for APPLE will die. Apple workers will be unemployed because Apple as a company will not longer exist, but that is not a comment on the destiny of individuals. The end of an organization doesn't mean the end of the lives of those that are associated with it.
In any case in the Jehovah's Witness teaching (which is what we are concerned with) the end of all religious and secular organizations save one is not a comment on the salvation of individuals (either within or outside) associated them. The Jehovah's Witness doctrine is that each individual will be judged by Jesus and their continued life or death will be independent of the fate of the worlds organizations.

Further, as has been stated, the Jehovah's Witnesses believe many millions that were unaware of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses either because it didn't exist at the time or they were not educated as to its existence, will have the opportunity to learn and obtain salvation.

QUESTIONS: If people have the chance to survive God's coming destruction of the wicked without being one of JW, why encourage them to become Jehovah's Witnesses?

Because being part of the true religion has immediate benefits, because JWs believe those that are suitably educated will be in the privileged position of being able to help others in the new world learn about God's standards and because being in God's organization is the safest place for lovers of truth to be.

To illustrate: Imagine if in an area prone to earthquakes there was ONE building that was constructed to withstand earthquakes. Being in the building doesn't guarantee survival, a lamp could drop on your head and still kill you, neither does being outside mean automatically one will be killed (survivors have been known to be dug out of the rubble days after earthquakes) and if one is in an area far from a building one may well go unharmed... but where would the safest place be?
In a similar way, Jehovah's Witnesses believe the one "earthquake" worthy organization, built to stand the coming destruction of God, is their own. There will be survivors that are not in it, maybe millions... we don't know, but what we do know, is that when the dust settles, there will be one building (organization) still standing. We urge people to put themselves in it.


For more on this topic please consult my earlier posts.

Will those that are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses be automatically condemned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 330#861330

What is the OFFICIAL statement regarding the salvation of non-Witnesses?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 220#865220

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , THE TRUE RELIGION and ...EXCLUSIVITY OF SALVATION
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:
"In the near future this generation will see the foretold “great tribulation� that will bring an end to this present wicked system. (Matt. 24:21) At that time none of Jehovah’s faithful servants, the only ones surviving, will mourn over the destruction of the wicked.
Yes, only FAITHFUL servants of Jehovah will survive; the unfaithful ones will be destroyed. What the statement doesn't say that the only people that survive will be faithful servants of Jehovah, only that the only catagory of servants of Jehovah that will survive will be the faithful ones.


JW


Earlier posts on this topic:

Did the Watchtower of 1989 say that only Jehovah's Witnesses have the hope of surviving Armageddon?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 274#865274

Will those that are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses be automatically condemned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 330#861330

What is the OFFICIAL statement regarding the salvation of non-Witnesses?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 220#865220
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 13, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 4 by polonius.advice]




"The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon* breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4

Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the majority of people will be destroyed at Armageddon. This will not be because they are not Jehovah's Witness but because they took no note of the warning signs and failed to take needed action to survive. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God will not destroy those that will prove to be ignorant of those warnings.
For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. - JESUS CHRIST
Those that drowned in the flood did not drown because they were not part of Noah's Family but because they did not get in the boat (take needed action)
Image
Paul Gustave Doré




*What is "Armageddon"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 289#865289
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 13, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 4 by polonius.advice]


"An even greater mistake would be to allow the faults of others to stumble us and cause us to leave Jehovah's organization. Were that to happen, we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed pp.25-26

Obviously those that lose their faith also lose their hope.

The hope of living forever, ie the belief that the faithful will live in this our planet earth transformed into a paradise is a hope unique in many ways to Jehovah's Witnesses. Atheists for example do not have that hope. For example A Jehovah's Witnesses who (for some inconceivable reason) becomes an atheists has lost that hope (because he no longer believes in God he can no longer hope in God's promises). A JW can lose their faith. A Jehovah's Witness can lose their "hope" (their christian belief in a coming new world).

What the magazine does NOT say is that one has lost any chance of surviving Armageddon*.

*What is "Armageddon"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 289#865289








Will those that are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses be automatically condemned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 330#861330

What is the OFFICIAL statement regarding the salvation of non-Witnesses?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 220#865220
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 13, 2017 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

QUESTION: What is Armageddon in the Jehovah's Witness terminology?

The word "Armageddon" appears in the bible book of Revelation. In Jehovah's Witness teaching it refers to the destruction those God himself judges as "incorrigibly wicked". The Jehovah's Witness dogma does not reserve this eventuality for all non-witnesses they believe that only God can judge if someone, even someone that presently is leading a life contrary to God's standards as outlined in the bible, will change given the right instructions and favorable conditions.

They thus simply believe that while all organizations will be destroyed during or prior to Armageddon (ie all human institutions) with the exception of their own, the fate of individuals remains in God's hands.

QUESTION: Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe all Jehovah's Witnesses will survive this destruciton?

Although JW believe the majority of God's people will prove faithful, being part of the modern day organization is no guarantee of a favorable judgement. Again they believe that everyone, Jehovah's Witness or not will be judged individually and will stand or fall before the Almighty.


Image

Will the EARTH be destroyed at Armageddon?

Absolutely not. The survivors, judged by God as being "meek" will inherit the earth and live forever in peace and in paradise-like conditions forever.


Further reading: What is the battle of Armageddon?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... rmageddon/

What do Jehovah's Witnesss encourage non-Witnesses that want to survive Armageddon to do?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 292#865292
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 13, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Let's see what JW publications are claiming

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

polonius.advice wrote:"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organization that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259
"to stand" =/= survive

This statement makes no mention whatsoever of survival of Armageddon or of salvation. It is dealing with whether a person can have a good relationship with God "independent" of God's organization at this time. The answer to that question, according to the JWs belief is, no. They need to learn about the True God in order to "stand before him" ie serve him acceptably.

There will be many that God choses not to destroy at Armageddon that at that time do not "stand"before him worshipping him acceptably BUT that he does not judge to be incorribibly wicked. If they as non-witnesses are permitted to survive Armageddon, they will indeed have to coming into a good "standing" (relationship) with their Creator.



Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have the ONE TRUE RELIGION?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p862968

Will those that are NOT Jehovah's Witnesses automatically condemned?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 30#p861330

What do Jehovah's Witnesss encourage non-Witnesses that want to survive Armageddon to do?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 92#p865292
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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