Elohim

[Elijah John]

"Elohim" is plural in Hebrew.

Modern Jews interpret this as a plural of majesty referring to God, as singularity.

Trinitarian Christians see the term as implied Trinity.

Who is right, and why?

Or does the term imply a vestige of polytheism, as in a pantheon?

[tigger2]

Elohim

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan Publishing, 1986, tells us:

“Elohim, though plural in form, is seldom used in the OT as such (i.e. ‘gods’). Even a single heathen god can be designated with the plural elohim (e.g. Jdg. 11:24; 1 Ki. 11:5; 2 Ki. 1:2). In Israel the plural is understood as the plural of fullness; God is the God who really, and in the fullest sense of the word, is God.� - p. 67, Vol. 2.

The NIV Study Bible says about elohim in its footnote for Gen. 1:1:
“This use of the plural expresses intensification rather than number and has been called the plural of majesty, or of potentiality.� – p. 6, Zondervan Publ., 1985.

And the New American Bible (St. Joseph ed.) tells us in its “Bible Dictionary� in the appendix:
“ELOHIM. Ordinary Hebrew word for God. It is the plural of majesty.� – Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1970.

A Dictionary of the Bible by William Smith (Smith’s Bible Dictionary, p. 220, Hendrickson Publ.) declares:
“The fanciful idea that [elohim] referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among [real] scholars. It is either what grammarians call the plural of majesty, or it denotes the fullness of divine strength, the sum of the powers displayed by God.�

And the popular work edited by Hastings says about this:
"It is exegesis of a mischievous if pious sort that would find the doctrine of the Trinity in the plural form elohim [God]" ("God," Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics).

To show how ancient Jewish scholars themselves understood this we can look at the work of the seventy Hebrew scholars who translated the ancient Hebrew Scriptures (OT) into Greek several centuries before the time of Christ.

The Greek language did not use the “plural of excellence� that the Hebrew did. So, if we see a plural used in the Greek Septuagint, it was really intended to represent more than one individual!

So how is elohim rendered in the Greek Septuagint by those ancient Hebrew scholars? Whenever it clearly refers to Jehovah God, it is always found to be singular in number (just as in New Testament Greek): theos ! Whenever elohim clearly refers to a plural (in number) noun, it is always found to be plural in number in Greek (just as in the New Testament Greek): theoi or theois (“gods�).

For example: “I am the Lord thy God [elohim - plural of excellence in Hebrew becomes theos - singular in the Greek Septuagint]� - Ex. 20:2. And “know that the Lord he is God [as always, the plural elohim, as applied to the God of Israel, becomes the singular, theos in the Septuagint] he made us...� - Ps. 100:3.

But when elohim really does mean plural in number, we see it rendered into the Greek plural for “gods� in the Septuagint: “Thou shalt not worship their gods [elohim in Hebrew becomes theois - plural in the Greek Septuagint], nor serve them .... And thou shalt serve the Lord thy God [singular - Greek].� - Ex. 23:24-25.

[tigger2]

“The plural ‘us,’ ‘our’...probably refers to the divine beings who compose God’s heavenly court (1 Kg. 22:19; Job 1:6).� - Gen. 1:26 footnote in The New Oxford Annotated Bible (1977).

And “Perhaps the plural of majesty .... But possibly the plural form implies a discussion between God and his heavenly court.� - The Jerusalem Bible footnote for "us" in Gen. 1:26.

And noted trinitarian scholar Dr. William Barclay agrees: “[God’s angels] were thought of as God’s senate; God did nothing without consulting them. For instance, when God said: ‘Let us make man’ (Genesis 1:26), it was to the angel senate that he was speaking.� - p. 17, The Letter to the Hebrews, Revised edition, “The Daily Study Bible Series,� The Westminster Press, 1976.

The trinitarian NIV Study Bible (1985, Zondervan) says in its note for Gen 1:26, "us ... our. God speaks as the Creator-King announcing his crowning work to the members of his heavenly court." And, in this same work, the footnotes for Job 1:6 and 38:7 say concerning “the sons of God�: "1:6 angels came to present themselves. .... They came as members of the heavenly council who stand in the presence of God." And "38:7 .... When the earth was created, the angels were there to sing the praises of the Creator, but Job was not."

Dr. Charles Ryrie explains the plurals as plurals of majesty: "Gen. 1:26 us . . . our. Plurals of majesty" (Ryrie Study Bible, NIV, p.6).

"The explanation of the first person plural forms is probably that the Creator speaks as heaven's King accompanied by His heavenly hosts" (The New Bible Commentary, p. 82).

"It is possible that this plural form implies a discussion between God and his heavenly court... Alternatively, the plural expresses the majesty and fullness of God's being" (New Jerusalem Bible, p. 19).

“(a) From Philo onward, Jewish commentators have generally held that the plural in Gen 1:26 is used because God is addressing his heavenly court, i.e., the angels (cf. Isa 6:8). Among recent commentators, Skinner, von Rad, Zimmerli, Kline, Mettinger, Gispen, and Day prefer this explanation. ….

“(b) From the Epistle of Barnabas and Justin Martyr, who saw the plural as a reference to Christ,… Christians have traditionally seen this verse as [foreshadowing] the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author.� (World Biblical Commentary as found at

http://www.amazon.com/Word-Biblical-Co ... 849902002 .)

[kayky]

I'm not good with my timelines. Was Isaiah a pre or a post exilic prophet? Or a prophet in the exile?

Several of the passages from his book seem to indicate a true monotheism.

Isaiah the man was pre-exile, but most of the book bearing his name was written post-exile. However, I did not mean to imply there were no true monotheists in pre-exile Israel. It was just more of an evolutionary process than many people recognize.

My dating is based on A Short Introduction to the Hebrew Bible by John J. Collins, a textbook I used in the fall semester of 2016.

[kayky]

The extensive use of the name Yahweh throughout the Jewish scriptures makes it extremely difficult say that Abraham and his descendants followed El the father of Baal. Elohim is more likely a generic term for God, as opposed to a specific name. There is too much focus on Yahweh being separate from the Canaanite pantheon to say that He was really one of them prior to the exile. Unless of course you are suggesting that the scriptures were re-written following the exile to fit a new theology, in which case we can say that Abraham originally believe anything we want him to have believed.

Polytheism did exist in Israel prior to the exile, but there was also a constant and strong opposition to it. Specifically, the writings of the prophets often condemned the people for polytheistic practices.

It depends on which author/editor you are referring to: E, J, P, or D.
J uses YHWH, while E uses El. My claim about the origins of El come from Karen Armstrong's book, The History of God.

I do agree there were true monotheists in pre-exile Israel. I am speaking of the country as a whole.

[Sojournerofthearth]

"Elohim" is plural in Hebrew.

Modern Jews interpret this as a plural of majesty referring to God, as singularity.

Trinitarian Christians see the term as implied Trinity.

Who is right, and why?

Or does the term imply a vestige of polytheism, as in a pantheon?

I would say neither is correct. According to the Bible, if one is so inclined, Prior to His birth as Joshua, Yeshua, Jesus Christ or however else one might refer to him, He was the Word, Melchiszedek, and the Creator God that the Israelites knew as YHVH. He came, among other things, to reveal the Father, because the world did not know Him,

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him. (John 1:18) ... nor does anyone know the Father, except the Son, and the one to whom the Son purposes to reveal Him. (Matthew 11:27)

But he has always existed with God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:1-4)

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:1-4)

Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (John 8:53-58)

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:4-5)

In fact there are numerous references to God in a plural since, as seen in this excerpt taken from a book called: The Names of God by Andrew Jukes.

First then this name, though a plural noun, when used of the one true God is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular. (Note: For singular verbs with Elohim, see Gen. 1:1, 3, &c., and in countless places. For singular adjectives see 2 Kings 19:4, 16; Psalm 7:9; 57:2, &c. See Gesenius, Thesaurus, under �להי�, p. 96.) We are thus prepared, even from the beginning, for the mystery of a plurality in God, who, though He says, "There is no God beside me" (Deut. 32:39), and "I am God, and there is none else" (Isa. 45:5, 22), says also, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Gen. 1:26); and again, "The man is become like one of us" (Gen. 3:22); and again at Babel, "Go to, let us go down and confound their language" (Gen. 11:7); and again, in the vision granted to the prophet Isaiah, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us" (Isa. 6:8). And this same mystery, though hidden from an English reader, comes out again and again in many other texts of Holy Scripture. For "Remember thy Creator in the days of thy youth," is literally, "Remember thy Creators" (Eccl. 12:1). Again, "None saith, Where is God my Maker?" is in the Hebrew, "God my Makers" (Job 35:10). So again, "Let Israel rejoice in Him that made him," is, in the Hebrew, "in his Makers" (Psalm 149:2). And so again in the Proverbs, "The knowledge of the Holy Ones is understanding" (Prov. 9:10). So again where the Prophet says, "Thy Maker is thy husband," both words are plural in the Hebrew (Isa. 54:5). Many other passages of Scripture have precisely the same peculiarity. (Note: For example, "Holy Ones" in Job 5:1, and in Hos. 11:12; and "Thy Redeemers" in Isa. 44:24, &c.) Therefore in heaven "Cherubim and Seraphim continually do cry, Holy, Holy, Holy, LORD of Hosts" (Isa. 6:3; Rev. 4:8), while on earth, taught by the Spirit of our Lord, we say, "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" (2 Cor. 13:14). The plural form of the first name of God, that is "Elohim," shadows forth the same mystery; while the verb, and even the adjective, joined with it in the singular, as when we read, "the living" (2 Kings 19:4, 16; Heb. �להי� הי), or "the righteous" (Psalm 7:9; Heb. �להי� צדיק), or "the Most High God" (Psalm 57:2; Heb. �להי� עליון), (Note: See Gesenius, Thesaurus, p. 96, under �להי�.) shew that this "Elohim," though plural, is but One God. (Note: In a very few places this name, "Elohim," is joined with plural adjectives, (see Gen. 20:13; 35:7;) and verbs, (Deut. 4:7; 5:26; Josh. 24:19; 1 Sam. 17:26, 36; 2 Sam. 7:23; Psalm 58:12; Jer. 10:10; 23:36.) But in all these cases, except the first two, where perhaps angels are referred to, the name "Jehovah" is connected with "Elohim;" and the plural adjective or verb may be used to teach us, that in the One "Jehovah" there is the plurality of the "Elohim.") I actually own the book but it was much easier to copy it from this website. http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/nam ... od-ch1.htm

And yet, God, is one, one in purpose, in deeds, in thought and in goals, as the lofty idea that a man and woman become one when joined in marriage. The two are one but not one in the same.

[ttruscott]

"Elohim" is plural in Hebrew.

Modern Jews interpret this as a plural of majesty referring to God, as singularity.

Trinitarian Christians see the term as implied Trinity.

Who is right, and why?

The proof will out, soon enough. The reasons for accepting the Trinity do not negate the reasons for not accepting, only revelation will tell.

Or does the term imply a vestige of polytheism, as in a pantheon?

Does to some, not to all.

[JehovahsWitness]

So how is elohim rendered in the Greek Septuagint by those ancient Hebrew scholars? Whenever it clearly refers to Jehovah God, it is always found to be singular in number (just as in New Testament Greek): theos ! Whenever elohim clearly refers to a plural (in number) noun, it is always found to be plural in number in Greek (just as in the New Testament Greek): theoi or theois .


Read full post HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 39#p866439

Thank you for your research EJ.

sojourn also has an interesting quotation:

"[T]hough a plural noun, when used of the one true God is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular. (Note: For singular verbs with Elohim, see Gen. 1:1, 3, &c., and in countless places. For singular adjectives see 2 Kings 19:4, 16; Psalm 7:9; 57:2, &c. See Gesenius, Thesaurus, p. 96.)"

source: The Names of God by Andrew Jukes

FURTHER READING

Elohim (pl. noun) does not support a trinitarial view.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 38#p866438

Elohim plural of excellence (not numerical plural): with SINGULAR verbs/adjectives
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 46#p866346

Related Topic: "True" "False" "Only" (Tigger)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 76#p866476