Preacher said, "God died for your sins".
For the purposes of this forum, the OP is assuming for the sake of argument that God exists.
For debate, can God die?
Even for three days?
Doesn't that statement deny God's characteristic immortality?
And don't such statements highlight the absurdity of believing that "Jesus is God"?
Can "God die"?
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Can "God die"?
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Post #12
With God all things are possible according to scripture.
Can God die? Yes, without question. We should remember that Jesus taught that he could do nothing of himself, but could only do the works of the Father.
Did he not state that the Father had life in himself and that he had power to lay down his life and take it again? Did not Jesus state that "even so hath the Son life in himself and that he also had power to lay down his life and take it again?
One should remember that though Christ laid down his mortal body in death, that his spirit was not dead.
Perhaps the greatest question is, What would happen if God sinned?
Can God die? Yes, without question. We should remember that Jesus taught that he could do nothing of himself, but could only do the works of the Father.
Did he not state that the Father had life in himself and that he had power to lay down his life and take it again? Did not Jesus state that "even so hath the Son life in himself and that he also had power to lay down his life and take it again?
One should remember that though Christ laid down his mortal body in death, that his spirit was not dead.
Perhaps the greatest question is, What would happen if God sinned?
Post #13
And it is presumably the Father we are talking about, not his human incarnation. If we make God dependent on human definition then he is eternal or mortal depending on what qualities we give him. We can kill the God we create, of course.Revelations won wrote:
Can God die? Yes, without question. We should remember that Jesus taught that he could do nothing of himself, but could only do the works of the Father.
This is an irrelevance. In Jesus we are seeing that man is subject to death. Whether we call Jesus a god is another question. One would think that God is a spirit, since we don't see him at traffic lights or enjoying a country walk, and one might suppose spirits do not taste death. But that is speculation.Revelations won wrote:
Did he not state that the Father had life in himself and that he had power to lay down his life and take it again? Did not Jesus state that "even so hath the Son life in himself and that he also had power to lay down his life and take it again?
In some theologies, sin kills the soul and so we might regard God as sinless. Whatever he does is by its nature not a sin. There would be no one to judge whether God has sinned. We can look at Yahweh and say he is sometimes wicked. This is because we are regarding Yahweh as man's fabrication. If we regard Yahweh as a sinless God, then his asking Abraham to commit murder can be called an act of love. It is not for us to judge gods. Similarly when he seems to behave atrociously and lets Jesus be crucified, we can see this not as sadism but as love. Incomprehensible love, but what difference does it make?Revelations won wrote:
Perhaps the greatest question is, What would happen if God sinned?
Such a terrifying being, outside of human understanding and laws, would presumably not be subject to death.
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Post #14
[Replying to post 13 by marco]
We have no reason to believe that God is not subject to death. The words of men can not possibly describe the concepts of entities of gods and death and such.
We don't know what death would mean to such a creature.
And we even have proof that God is dead. No miracles in centuries.
God can not only die, but has been dead long before Nietzsche noticed it.
Is there any convincing reason to believe otherwise?
We have no reason to believe that God is not subject to death. The words of men can not possibly describe the concepts of entities of gods and death and such.
We don't know what death would mean to such a creature.
And we even have proof that God is dead. No miracles in centuries.
God can not only die, but has been dead long before Nietzsche noticed it.
Is there any convincing reason to believe otherwise?
Post #15
It depends where God was minted, Willum. In some mythologies gods and demi-gods died, If God is indeed a creature, created by something or someone, I would imagine he is subject to death.Willum wrote: [Replying to post 13 by marco]
We have no reason to believe that God is not subject to death. The words of men can not possibly describe the concepts of entities of gods and death and such.
We don't know what death would mean to such a creature.
I have absolutely no evidence that God is, so I have the same amount of evidence that God is not. Man has made God immortal, and by that definition, he doesn't die.
Nietzsche possibly discovered God was dead in one of his bouts of insanity. He's not the most reliable witness. In any event it can be safely affirmed that Nietzsche is dead which must offer God some satisfaction.
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Post #16
[Replying to post 15 by marco]
Ah well said. But just as Moses discovered God in one of his bouts of insanity, it makes sense that Nietzsche discovered God's death in one of his.
Insanity, beginning at a delusion experienced by many people, seems to be the best way to find out about God.
Ah well said. But just as Moses discovered God in one of his bouts of insanity, it makes sense that Nietzsche discovered God's death in one of his.
Insanity, beginning at a delusion experienced by many people, seems to be the best way to find out about God.
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Post #17
What is death?
Biologists and physicians define death as the permanent cessation of life. This raises the question as to whether God could be described as alive.
Life is considered a characteristic of something that exhibits all or most of the following traits:
Biologists and physicians define death as the permanent cessation of life. This raises the question as to whether God could be described as alive.
Life is considered a characteristic of something that exhibits all or most of the following traits:
- Homeostasis: regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature
- Organization: being structurally composed of one or more cells — the basic units of life
- Metabolism: transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
- Growth: maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
- Adaptation: the ability to change over time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity, diet, and external factors.
- Response to stimuli: a response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion; for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism), and chemotaxis.
- Reproduction: the ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism or sexually from two parent organisms.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Post #18
Response to Willum:
You said: "We don't know what death would mean to such a creature.
And we even have proof that God is dead. No miracles in centuries."
I would beg to differ with you on this point. I think that there are a hundred fold more miracles produced in the last two centuries than are recorded in the bible. untold numbers of these have been recorded and are available for anyones perusal. It appears that you are void of these many accounts,
One should remember that God is an unchanging God and is "the same, yesterday, today and forever ".
He is indeed a God of miracles and why should we expect anything different today?
You said: "We don't know what death would mean to such a creature.
And we even have proof that God is dead. No miracles in centuries."
I would beg to differ with you on this point. I think that there are a hundred fold more miracles produced in the last two centuries than are recorded in the bible. untold numbers of these have been recorded and are available for anyones perusal. It appears that you are void of these many accounts,
One should remember that God is an unchanging God and is "the same, yesterday, today and forever ".
He is indeed a God of miracles and why should we expect anything different today?
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Post #19
[Replying to post 18 by Revelations won]
and I know that there have been zero-fold miracles.
How do we resolve the difference between what you think and what the rest of the world observes?
Quelle dilemma.
As to God not changing, that's a weird can of worms, if he created something, then he recognized a need for, and did indeed change.
Quelle dilemma.
and I know that there have been zero-fold miracles.
How do we resolve the difference between what you think and what the rest of the world observes?
Quelle dilemma.
As to God not changing, that's a weird can of worms, if he created something, then he recognized a need for, and did indeed change.
Quelle dilemma.
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Post #20
Dear Willum,
How do you know that there have been zero miracles?
From what date do you base this decision?
Have you done any research to view claims of miracles, both modern and anciently?
What evidences do you use to base your conclusions?
How do you know that there have been zero miracles?
From what date do you base this decision?
Have you done any research to view claims of miracles, both modern and anciently?
What evidences do you use to base your conclusions?