Who are "God's people"?

[Elijah John]

On another thread, JW said this:

Just to clarify, when I speak about "his people" I am refering ONLY to Jehovah's Witnesses.

For debate...who are God's (his) people?

All believers?

All people of good will?

Or just Jehovah's Witnesses.

If others are not God's people, whose people are they?

Do JW's have copyrights to the title "God's people?

If JW is making a claim that only JW's are "God's people" is this a good witnesss to the expansive love of God?

Or is this just another example of an "us only" mindset..

[JehovahsWitness]

People have different interpretations with regard to Jesus teaching. Or are you saying that only those who believe like your group are actually following Jesus teaching?.

Well I can't speak for onewithhim, but personally I would say it's not just a matter of belief. Satan the Devil both knows and believes who are God's people on earth today, but he (Satan) hasn't joined them, nor does his acknowledgement equal support. So I believe only those that know, believe and JOIN (as in support) God's people are "following" Christ today.

Jesus, for example, never taught folks to abstain from birthday celebrations. Nor did he ever teach against blood transfusions.

He didn't have to, he was a Jew, such things would have been incompatible with the religion he followed. Birthdays existed back then and would not have been celebrated by faithful worshippers of Jehovah due to their links with pagan worship. And although I doubt that blood transfusing existed the ONLY sanctioned use of blood was to offer it at the temple, so transfusing it would have been prohibited had they had the technology.

And how bout those who consider Jesus an apostate?

Who, like the Pharisees? What about them?

Doesn't salvation "come from the Jews" as the Evangelist John teaches?

Yes, salvation "came" from the Jews, and ends with the Christians.

Are you saying Jews are no longer Jehovah's people because they rejected Jesus?

Absolutely, yes. That's exactly right, yes, that is what we believe.

That is called "replacement theology", and is considered arrogant and divisive.

Who cares, it can be called "boggely-doogily-flabidigatodiasm"theory for all we care; and if it's true then its not arrogant to say it.

Further, truth will always be divisive as long as falsehoods exist. Jesus said he came to produce a "sword" in that he knew his message would divide those that love truth from those that do not. There's no record of Jesus saying keep the truth to yourself because people might not like it.

And besides, where Jesus teachings overlap with those of Judaism, they are not really rejecting Jesus....in Spirit.

In your opinion. We simply do not agree with your opinion, is that okay? I presume it is okay because should you disagree and say I'm wrong that would be terribly "divisive" of you.

Jesus exmplifies what's best about Judaism, in effect, he personifies Judaism.

If by "Judaism" you are refering to the system of worship that is based on the Hebrew bible, then I would agree.


JW

[2timothy316]

That is called "replacement theology", and is considered arrogant and divisive.

Who cares, it can be called "boggely-doogily-flabidigatodiasm"theory for all we care; and if it's true then its not arrogant to say it.

Further, truth will always be divisive as long as falsehoods exist. Jesus said he came to produce a "sword" in that he knew his message would divide those that love truth from those that do not. There's no record of Jesus saying keep the truth to yourself because people might not like it.

The Jews knew there was going to be a 'new covenant since the days of Jeremiah.

"“Look! The days are coming,� declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.� - Jer 31:31, 32

So folks can call it 'replacement' whatever and they'd be correct. The covenant has been replaced at Jehovah's direction. There is nothing stopping all Jews or anyone from observing this new covenant but themselves. In fact the whole goal of being a Witness for Jehovah is to invite people to be part of the new covenant. That's far from being 'arrogant and divisive'. Actually now that I think about it, replaced is not really the correct word. 'Replace' could be viewed as that the old covenant didn't do it's job. Yet it did exactly what it was supposed to do. The old law code was never supposed to last forever. Also, all covenants are to benefit all of the Earth and not just one nation. Jehovah made a covenant with Abraham, saying: “By means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves.� (Genesis 22:17, 18)

This is far from arrogant or divisive. It inspires hope and seeks unity. However, no one is forced to be part of the new covenant.

[Elijah John]

So JW's...not even fellow Christians are "God's people" today? Only the WTS Jehovah's Witnesses?

No Trinitarians can be considered "God's People" ? No Catholics, no Protestants, No Eastern Orthodox and no Monotheist Jews???

How 'bout Christadelphians? They have very similar beliefs to yours, are they brother's and sisters? God's people? Or not?

You don't recognize even other Christians as your brothers and sisters? Children of God as well?

So it doesn't matter how much these others love God as they understand Him if they get their doctrine, dogma or theology "wrong", God rejects them??

I doubt either Jesus or Paul would agree with such a divisive, insular, exclusionary and yes arrogant attitude.

It may be helpful for you folks to re-read Romans 11, and remember that Paul seems to disagree with your position.

JW's, like other Christians (and yes, there are other Christians) are "grafted"branches. Paul warned against arrogance and advocated humility, reminding his audience that if God did not spare some natural branches, he would not spare arrogant grafted ones either.

And Paul says God has not forgotten the Jews.

Jesus himself chided folks with exclusionary attitudes, who tried to limit God's expansive love (The Pharisees), and were a bit overconfident in their standing before God saying that God can turn rocks into Children of Abraham.

The parable of the Pharisee and the Publican also comes to mind.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 13 by Elijah John]

Let's think of ancient Israel for a second. Where the Syrians God's people? Where the Babylonians God's people?

Let's go back further to Lot. Were the Sodomities God's people? How about the people of Gomorrah?

How about Abraham? Where the people of Ur God's people? Where the people of Canaan and Egypt God's people?

How did the Israelites, Lot and Abraham become God's people? Was it their choice that Jehovah put His blessings on them? Why did Jehovah bless them and not others?

If we search the Bible we find that it wasn't who they were but who they obeyed. A person could have believed they were following God in the time of the great flood but if that same person didn't get on the Ark or build their own, what they believe does them no good.

The question of 'who are God's chosen people'? The answer is found in the Bible. “Today Jehovah has obtained your declaration that you will become his people, his special property, just as he has promised you, and that you will observe all his commandments and that he will put you high above all the other nations that he has made, giving you praise and fame and glory as you prove yourself a people holy to Jehovah your God.�—Deuteronomy 26:18, 19.

What group is observing God's commandments? For that matter what are God's commandments? When Israel stopped following God's commandments, how did they fare? The ideology that no can really know what God wants is a scam and keeps people from becoming His property.

[Elijah John]

What group is observing God's commandments?

Observant Jews, with their applicable ones among the 613. Many Christians, (JW's and Trintarians alike), with the Ten, or the Noahide 7.

For that matter what are God's commandments?

See above.

When Israel stopped following God's commandments, how did they fare?

Not well. But God still loved them, and they were still God's people.

The ideology that no can really know what God wants is a scam and keeps people from becoming His property.

Straw man, not suggesting that. The Prophet Micah tells us what God wants:

"He has told you, O earthling man what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercize justice, and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?

Seems to me that many Jehovah's witnesses, as well as many Jews, many Trinitarian Christians and even many Muslims abide by God's expectation as expressed through Micah.

[2timothy316]

Straw man, not suggesting that. The Prophet Micah tells us what God wants:

"He has told you, O earthling man what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercize justice, and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?

Seems to me that many Jehovah's witnesses, as well as many Jews, many Trinitarian Christians and even many Muslims abide by God's expectation as expressed through Micah.

Justice, love and modest by who's standards?

Some think that blowing up other people is showing love. Some think going to war is an expression of love. There are threads on here were people fight over what even justice means.

There in Micah it doesn't say to be just, love and modest will make a person belong to God. "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God." Ezekiel 11:19, 20. Bible where it says 'these are my people' keeping the statutes and ordinances makes a person belong to God. It's not only being loving, modest and just.

[2timothy316]

What group is observing God's commandments?

Observant Jews, with their applicable ones among the 613. Many Christians, (JW's and Trintarians alike), with the Ten, or the Noahide 7.

Not according to the Bible. According to the Bible we are under a new covenant. However, the principles of the old law code still apply. That will never change, laws do change though.

[Elijah John]

Straw man, not suggesting that. The Prophet Micah tells us what God wants:

"He has told you, O earthling man what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercize justice, and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?

Seems to me that many Jehovah's witnesses, as well as many Jews, many Trinitarian Christians and even many Muslims abide by God's expectation as expressed through Micah.

Justice, love and modest by who's standards?

Some think that blowing up other people is showing love. Some think going to war is an expression of love.

Common sense, God-given standards. Only idiots and fanatics think slaughtering people is demonstating "love" for them, or being kind to them.

And wasn't Micah here advocating simple, God-given common sense in relating to God and our fellow humans?

In adding complexity to God's simple expectations, you add insular rigidity.

[JehovahsWitness]

No Trinitarians can be considered "God's People" ? No Catholics, no Protestants, No Eastern Orthodox and no Monotheist Jews???

How 'bout Christadelphians? They have very similar beliefs to yours, are they brother's and sisters? God's people? Or not? You don't recognize even other Christians as your brothers and sisters?

Maybe we are not making this clear enough for you, we believe God has chosen one and ONLY one group of people, organized into a united brotherhood to represent him today. That group is, in our opinion, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES and only Jehovah's Witnesses (see Acts 15:14). There is only one true religion in our opinion and we believe we are it. That is our official stand on the matter.

There is no need to keep asking the same question in different forms or name all the different nominal Christian religious groups or denominations (of which there are thousands), you can just take the above statement as standard and apply it to every other religion on earth.

As for whether other believers in other faiths are my "brothers and sisters"; spiritually no, I view my brothers and sisters my fellow witnesses, united in our common international brotherhood. Now if you are using the term "brothers and sisters" as my fellow human beings, then yes, we are all God's creation, in that sense Catholics, Jews, even atheists are my "brothers and sisters" but I would never address them as such on a SPIRITUAL level, that is exclusively a term I would use to refer to my JW brethren.


JW



FURTHER READING : Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion??
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/

Are You Convinced That You Have the Truth? Why?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2014682



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[bluethread]

Not according to the Bible. According to the Bible we are under a new covenant. However, the principles of the old law code still apply. That will never change, laws do change though.

Are you saying that some of the commandments of Adonai violate His principles?