Is evolution a controversial science?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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McCulloch
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Is evolution a controversial science?

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Elsewhere JP Cusick wrote:Both religion and controversial science could be taught in elective College courses where they belong.
He was referring to evolution as controversial science. While there may be quite a number of legitimate controversies within the science of biology regarding evolution, evolution itself is not a controversy at all among biologists.

Question for debate: Is evolution as taught at the high school level, a controversial science? Is there any controversy among currently practicing biologists regarding the basic science behind evolution?
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

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Post by McCulloch »

JP Cusick wrote:So here is a link (one of many) which declares the same message, CONSERVOPEDIA.

conservapedia!? You are joking right? The argument in the link provided seems to be that public schools cannot provide a religious education to their students therefore the atheist agenda to convert America to atheism is taking place. Not teaching religion is not the same thing as teaching atheism.
JP Cusick wrote:The denials of pushing Atheism into the schools is unworthy of a discussion - as why are you not proud of it?
Why would that be? You assert and I deny that public schools teach atheism. I have access to the public school curriculum in my area; I personally know several public school teachers that I have talked with about this topic; I went to public school (a long time ago. If anything, Christianity was promoted in that we recited the Lord's Prayer). Atheism is not being taught in the public schools.

JP Cusick wrote:There is a religious scientific version of evolution which shows an intelligent Designer who created life for a reason and a purpose, and humans have moral responsibilities to follow.
Science teaches that? Really?
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

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Post by Bust Nak »

JP Cusick wrote: Tell the white people that color does not make any difference - as if that was ever going to stop the white superiority complex.
That is a red herring, whether racist people listen to it or not, does not change the fact that evolution does indeed tell us color does not make any difference.

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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #123

Post by JP Cusick »

McCulloch wrote: conservapedia!? You are joking right? The argument in the link provided seems to be that public schools cannot provide a religious education to their students therefore the atheist agenda to convert America to atheism is taking place. Not teaching religion is not the same thing as teaching atheism.

Atheism is not being taught in the public schools.
I did not expect you to accept any of the sources so the "Conserapedia" link was just one that suited this discussion - IMO.

All Atheism really means is the absence of God or any version of God, and so yes removing God from the school means teaching Atheism.

It is not teaching Humanism which some people attach to Atheism, so still the absence of God is the meaning of Atheism and that is the new curriculum of the past 60 or so years.
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JP Cusick wrote:There is a religious scientific version of evolution which shows an intelligent Designer who created life for a reason and a purpose, and humans have moral responsibilities to follow.
Science teaches that? Really?
The secular heathen science - or fake science does not teach that - certainly not

But there is a version of science that includes religion, just as the famous saying declares:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

If science in the schools were being considerate of the character being improved in the students then the schools would teach the science which includes God.
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #124

Post by benchwarmer »

I would like to zone in on this one as it is simply false.
JP Cusick wrote: All Atheism really means is the absence of God or any version of God, and so yes removing God from the school means teaching Atheism.
You do realize that there are religion classes in some schools right? I don't mean the kind that proclaim some flavor of god as the true god, but the kind that covers the world religions and the history behind them. Are they "teaching atheism" as well?

Simply not teaching one thing does not by default mean you are teaching something else.

In order to "teach atheism" the school would have to promote atheism and explain why every single religion is probably false. They would actively push non theism on the students and have them take tests on the material to make sure they retained the information. That would be teaching atheism. Is that what we see in public schools? Not where I live. I doubt it's happening where you live either, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Essentially, you seem upset that public schools are now distancing themselves from promoting any form of theism (actually Christianity in your case, I assume you would be quite irate if they promoted Islam).

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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #125

Post by JP Cusick »

benchwarmer wrote: You do realize that there are religion classes in some schools right? I don't mean the kind that proclaim some flavor of god as the true god, but the kind that covers the world religions and the history behind them. Are they "teaching atheism" as well?
Yes that is teaching Atheism, as it is degrading all religions.

We can still give that a "secular grade A" for being a very clever deception, but if we judge it by religious standards then such a deception is just a fancy kind of lie.

There is no other reason to have such a class as that.

If it were really a secular school then be secular - but no - there is a different anti religion agenda going on.
benchwarmer wrote: Simply not teaching one thing does not by default mean you are teaching something else.
That would be true for a lot of things, but it is not true for religion or for Atheism, because Atheism is removing God from the teaching.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

By teaching Atheism it is teaching children to be mentally handicapped as an adult.
benchwarmer wrote: In order to "teach atheism" the school would have to promote atheism and explain why every single religion is probably false. They would actively push non theism on the students and have them take tests on the material to make sure they retained the information. That would be teaching atheism. Is that what we see in public schools? Not where I live. I doubt it's happening where you live either, but feel free to prove me wrong.
I believe that many schools (or the teachers) are already teaching like that now.

But anyway that kind of brainwashing is the next step because Atheism feeds patriotism to the State (the USA) and replaces the first loyalty to God.
benchwarmer wrote: Essentially, you seem upset that public schools are now distancing themselves from promoting any form of theism (actually Christianity in your case, I assume you would be quite irate if they promoted Islam).
No, I expect Islam to be taught in every school in every Islamic Country.

The very idea that in a Christian Country the government controlled schools would teach the students a doctrine contrary to the people of that Country is really unusual and absurd, except that the US gov is just trying to take greater control of its people.
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #126

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to post 125 by JP Cusick]
By teaching Atheism it is teaching children to be mentally handicapped as an adult.


You just can't stop insulting atheists can you? Do you really believe that all adult atheists are mentally handicapped? What about atheists who were brought up in Christian households (as I was) and decided once they were adults that religion was entirely man made with no evidence to support it?
The very idea that in a Christian Country the government controlled schools would teach the students a doctrine contrary to the people of that Country is really unusual and absurd, except that the US gov is just trying to take greater control of its people.


The United States is not a "Christian Country" by our Constitution ... it is secular by design. It is true that Christianity is the most popular religion in the U.S. at present, but our government is not a "Christian government", and Christianity is not the State religion or anything of the sort. The Constitution guarantees you the right to practice Christianity (or any other religion) just as it guarantees me the right to practice no religion. On July 4th, you should especially appreciate that freedom to have any religious views you please is one of the great things about living in the U.S. ... a country with a secular constitution.
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #127

Post by Bust Nak »

JP Cusick wrote: I believe that many schools (or the teachers) are already teaching like that now.
You would be wrong then. Teaching that way is illegal.
But anyway that kind of brainwashing is the next step because Atheism feeds patriotism to the State (the USA) and replaces the first loyalty to God.
Has it occurred to you that the most zealous of the patriot, to the point of jingoism, correspond with the religiosity in the US?
The very idea that in a Christian Country the government controlled schools would teach the students a doctrine contrary to the people of that Country is really unusual and absurd, except that the US gov is just trying to take greater control of its people.
Has it occurred to you that the current US gov is actively steering the education system towards Christianity?

Non of what you said made any sense in the light of current events.

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Post #128

Post by Zzyzx »

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JP Cusick wrote: By teaching Atheism it is teaching children to be mentally handicapped as an adult..
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #129

Post by JP Cusick »

DrNoGods wrote: You just can't stop insulting atheists can you? Do you really believe that all adult atheists are mentally handicapped? What about atheists who were brought up in Christian households (as I was) and decided once they were adults that religion was entirely man made with no evidence to support it?
I really did not mean that as an insult - but I can see now how it would be taken as an insult.

What I said and what I meant was attached to this saying: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

So if we take that saying literally as I did, then without religion one is handicapped as "lame" and without science those are handicapped by being "blind".

I do not think that Einstein meant that as an insult either, but people take such things as an insult instead of seeing it for its real intention.
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The United States is not a "Christian Country" by our Constitution ... it is secular by design.
I disagree that the USA was secular by design, because the 1st Amendment only intended that no Christian denomination could be established as the religion of the entire Country.

The 1st Amendment only meant that no Christian denomination could be established over the other Christian denominations.

The 1st Amendment never meant that the USA was to be secular with no religion.

And to be sure - the entire Bill of Rights was a big mistake for the Constitution, because it has done a lot of real harm to our Country and to society.

Even the so called freedom of Press is why we are saturated with Fake-News from sea to shinning sea.
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Re: Is evolution a controversial science?

Post #130

Post by JP Cusick »

Bust Nak wrote: You would be wrong then. Teaching that way is illegal.
Being a democracy allows for the people to break any laws that they see fitting to break, and so long as they have a majority then the laws stay broken.

Just as most people break the posted speed limits, and they get upset at people who comply with the speed limits, because the majority over rules any opposition.

The teachers and the schools do teach Atheism and anti religion, and that is what the students want, because the brainwashing is already widespread after some 60 years of the indoctrination going on.
Bust Nak wrote: Has it occurred to you that the most zealous of the patriot, to the point of jingoism, correspond with the religiosity in the US?
Yes I do, but there came a change starting about 60 years ago when white people started turning to Darwinism.

The war of independence was based on a moral objection against the British gov and yes Christianity was dominant, the US Civil war was based on the Christian dominated anti slavery coalitions, and both the world wars had moral claims in support of the Patriotism, but now today the USA fights immoral wars of aggression against the religion of Islam and we use immoral technology in warfare to murder the opposition, and so the change is now come and the change dominates.

Politicians might claim some religion or some obscure morality as like this:

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." See the full text here = 2 Timothy 3:2-5
Bust Nak wrote: Has it occurred to you that the current US gov is actively steering the education system towards Christianity?
No, that never occurred to me.

And I do not see an ounce of truth to that claim now.

Plus mainstream Christianity is not up to the challenge which we now confront.

What is really needed is a new religion to be established by the government to instill virtue and honor into the American people. But again = no one is up to that task.
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