Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

tam · Post by **tam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:11 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 635 by tam]

That said, returning to the topic at hand, I think that humans can live forever and be happy on the earth.

I agree that we could be...

But not if it meant that we would never hear the voice of our Lord ... speak with Him.
Didn't Jesus and John hear the voice of our Lord when he was baptized. Didn't Adam converse with God himself in the garden of Eden having a detailed conversation with Him?

Is there any reason to believe that humans will never hear the voice of our Lord in paradise if it were on earth?

Of course not.

But this is not what your paradise earth will be, according to your teachings, at least not that I have read from some of you on this forum. I also spoke with a JW couple for a few months last year. I was truly shocked when I realized that they expected to NEVER hear the voice of Christ. I could not even respond. How could they be looking forward to an eternity where they will never hear the voice of the One they claim to love? Never be spoken to by Him; never be able to speak WITH Him?

Instead, according to your teachings as I have read from some of you, the people resurrected to live on the earth will be taught from the bible... and/or from new scrolls.

But why would there be any need for such things when that which is complete has come? When the promises have been fulfilled? When Christ has returned as He said He would? Why would anyone need to learn from the bible when they would have the Truth and King, Himself, and could truly KNOW Him, learn from Him, see Him, hear Him?

Just for clarity sake my full quote was this:

But not if it meant that we would never hear the voice of our Lord, or be near Him, or see Him, meet Him, speak with Him. Some of us long to be with Him wherever He is.

The destination would not matter to me in the least - as long as He was there with me.

Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

tam · Post by **tam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:53 pm

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:24 pm

[Replying to post 641 by tam]

Firstly I don't believe you provided a reference as to any official published statements on whetther we will hear the voice of God in paradise; I am very well read on the official statements from the Watchtower society but if you would like to educate me with a reference one way or the other feel free; otherwise I shall ignore your statement as unfounded; for the time being it will simply be dismissed.

I cannot comment on other person's beliefs on this matter and since the bible doesn't say one way or the other, everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine of which I shared. If you wish to discuss another couples beliefs on this, I suggest you contact them and seek further exchange. Personally I try to restrict my comments about belief to my own; feel free to ask me for further details about what *I* believe if you feel so inclined.

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:36 pm

tam wrote:according to your teachings as I have read from some of you, the people resurrected to live on the earth will be taught from the bible... and/or from new scrolls.

REVELATION 20:12
"and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works"- Young's Literal Translation

tam wrote:But why would there be any need for such things when that which is complete has come?

Ask God, He's the one that had the above recorded in the bible (Revelation 20:12). If you doubt there is a need for these "scrolls" question God or Jesus not me.

JW

tam · Post by **tam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:36 pm

[Replying to post 643 by JehovahsWitness]

I do not mean to presume to tell you what you believe; I said "from what I have learned of your (general JWs) beliefs"... which I have learend from what some of you have written upon this site, and from what others have said in person.

By all means, please correct me if I am mistaken.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:38 pm

tam wrote: [Replying to post 643 by JehovahsWitness]

I do not mean to presume to tell you what you believe; I said "from what I have learned of your (general JWs) beliefs"...

I have addressed this point. See above.

Anything else?

tam · Post by **tam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:42 pm

Peace to you JW,

JehovahsWitness wrote:
tam wrote:according to your teachings as I have read from some of you, the people resurrected to live on the earth will be taught from the bible... and/or from new scrolls.

REVELATION 20:12
"and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works"- Young's Literal Translation

Yes... at the resurrection of the dead; scrolls will be opened (including the Lamb's book of life) and the dead will be judged according to their deeds as recorded in those scrolls.

These are not scrolls that they are learning from. These are scrolls that have recorded their works. Which they are being judged from.

I do not wish to presume, so did you mean to state something other than that?

Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:52 pm

tam wrote:Just for clarity sake my full quote was this:

But not if it meant that we would never [...] be near Him

REVELATION 21:2, 3
I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.

So you think that when the New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven and "the tent of God" ("the dwelling place of God") is with mankind we won't be "near" him? Is God's spirit not everywhere? If that is true now, how much more so when the new Jerusalem descends? Was Jesus not near God when he was on earth? Isn't God in the hearts of believers? How much nearer can he be?

2 TIMOTHY 4:17
But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the proclamation would be fully accomplished, and all the Gentiles should hear.

tam · Post by **tam** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:53 pm

[Replying to post 646 by JehovahsWitness]

Okay, so you believe that it is at least possible that those on the earth will hear His voice?

(Do you believe that it is possible for His sheep to hear His voice even now?)

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:05 pm

tam wrote: Okay, so you believe that it is at least possible that those on the earth will hear His voice?

I don't see any reason to believe we will not; as I said, the bible makes not definite statement about this one way or the other but we do have the example of the Perfect man Adam's relationship with his Father in the garden of Eden as an indication of what may be a future blessing in paradise: direct communication with our Creator.

The voice came from the invisible, the unseen realm, and it was addressing him. It was the voice of the man’s Maker, his Creator! And the man could answer him in the same kind of speech. He found himself talking with God, the Creator. The man needed no modern scientific radio receiver to hear the divine voice. God conversed with him directly as his creature."

- Watchtower 1989 August 1st, page 11 para 7

tam wrote:(Do you believe that it is possible for His sheep to hear His voice even now?)

Anything is "possible" and I would not presume upon the Almighty, but God or Jesus conversing with individuals was extremely rare in scripture and exclusively with the Prophets in their role in the development and progression of Divine will and purpose. After the establishment of the Christian congregation and the recording of the divine will in scripture the "bible" servants of God would be "completely equipt" with all they would thereafter need, so such miraclous imparting of "knowledge" would as Paul explained "cease" (see 1 Cor 13:8; 2 Tim 3:17).

My belief is that anyone claiming to hear a literal voice from the spirit realm today should at the very least ask themself why in view of the fact that Jesus and the Apostles have fully established the Christian congregation and proven it to be the "Israel of God", what scripturally their Prophetic role could possibly be (ie what did Jesus and the Apostles fail to do that they have been chosen to improve on) and at the most should seriously examine the possibility of demonic contact and/or mental health issues.

Not necessarily in that order,

JW