Abiogenesis

[liamconnor]

Again, I rarely wander over to the sciences and more rarely set up an argument. Not my forte.

But I recall reading that a famous atheist became a theist (not a Christian) because of the problem of abiogenesis.

Now, as I understand the term, it refers to the theory that life can come from non-life.

In simplistic terms, a rock can, over time, produce (on its own, nothing added to it; the development happens "within") cells.


Question:

Do I understand the term "abiogenesis"?


Based on my (or your corrected version's) definition, has it been reproduced by scientists?

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 558 by rikuoamero]

Quote:
Ex-atheist anthony flew abandoned atheism and adopted theism (not Christianity) because of the problem of abiogenesis: that is, he could not account for the origins of life within a naturalistic framework. How would you respond to such a change?

I'll answer this. I'd ask him
"What prompted a positive belief in theism, when all you've told me is you for some reason cannot figure out the origin of life naturally?"

Perhaps he would say, "it is not that I cannot find a natural origin of life; it is that I see there could not have been."

I would ask, "Do you start with Faith in naturalism? That is, despite the difficulties, you "just know, deep in you heart" that there must be a natural explanation?

Quote:
In other words, could organic life survive the conditions within which the expanse of the universe occurred (i.e., can life survive the big bang)?

I'd like to know why you asked this question. Given that naturally speaking, the Big Bang happened about roughly 10 billion years before the earliest life forms arose (by whatever method) on Earth, this question is kinda poorly thought out in my opinion.

I do not see how "time" has anything to do with this. The question is, how do we account for the birth of life naturally?

As an analogy: Given a dead corpse, how might the processes of decay naturally reverse into the processes of repair? Likewise, given a universe of "dead things", how do these things suddenly move in a direction towards life?

has anyone ever suggested to you there was life in the initial moments of the universe, just after the BB?

Apart from you, no. Perhaps there is a reason for that.

If there was life not at the BB but after, how?

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 559 by liamconnor]

Apart from you, no. Perhaps there is a reason for that.

I have never suggested life was around in the initial moments after the BB. The closest I got to saying that in my previous comment had to do with how sloppily worded your question was, in that you made it out as if the universe is no longer expanding (you said the expansion of the universe occurred, past tense).

If there was life not at the BB but after, how?

Since I have never claimed there was life AT the BB, I have no reason to answer this question.

I do not see how "time" has anything to do with this. The question is, how do we account for the birth of life naturally?

We cannot do that, as of yet, although there are several promising leads. As I have described yourself in other places: are you going to be like a person in the year 1750, declaring that flight quite simply CANNOT be explained via a naturalistic process, only to have egg on your face when the first hot air balloon ride occurs a mere few decades later?

As an analogy: Given a dead corpse, how might the processes of decay naturally reverse into the processes of repair?

Of that specific body, then no, that process does not happen. Other animals may eat the corpse and digest the materials to use for food and repair of their own body, but the original body itself does NOT reverse back to life.
I'm eating a pizza right now as I type this. It would be quite frightening indeed if there was a possibility of the animals used to make the pepperoni just reversing the damage done to their cells and coming back to life.

Likewise, given a universe of "dead things", how do these things suddenly move in a direction towards life?

You mean, before life first started, how did it it begin? I don't know the exact steps, but it would have had something to do with chemistry and physics. Chemicals reacting in certain ways with other chemicals, like the amino acids in my body folding and joining together to form proteins.