What purpose would a system of government have in heaven?

[Justin108]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient? Why would an omnipotent God need to delegate in order to effectively rule? Can you perhaps give a few examples of what these rulers would be tasked to do? What purpose would rulers have in a paradise society? There is no economy to take care of, no resource distribution, no justice system as all members at this point will be free of sin... what is left for the rulers to do?

[JehovahsWitness]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient?

The purpose of the government, as with all governments, is to establish and enforce an administeration to maintain order. While God is both omnipotent and omnicient by nature, this doesn't stop him choosing to delegate if that be his pleasure.


WHY deligate when one can do something alone?

People delegate for all sorts of reasons; one might be more efficient alone but delegation enables others to learn, gives others a purposeful role in a project and privileges good relationship by working in a team. Delegating dignifies suborndinates and allows them the privilege of contributing their individual skills and abilities. There are many instances where God has expressed his sovereignty through others giving them a degree of authority, and allowing them input. (There is even the biblical scene of God asking his angelic creatures for ideas to handle a problem and patiently hearning each one offer suggestions - see 1 Kings 22), indeed the bible describes Christians as "God's fellow workers" to accomplish the preaching of the good news.

Thus while obviously an omnipotent God needs noone to accomplish his purpose, He is aware the pleasure that can be had of sharing a project and has chosen to diginfy his intelligent creatures with the privilege of working with Him.

To illustrate: A father is fixing his car. His son wants to "help" so he allows him to hand him the tools. No doubt the father could do without his son and could probably get the job done faster. so why does he allow his son to help him, delegating a task to him? Because he knows those will be precious memories for the son, that the boy will learn from working with his father and that doing something alone is not always the most important thing when someone has a family.

In a similar way, the bible again and again speaks of God, not as a distant arbitrator but as a loving father, willing to work with his intelligent creatures. Indeed, the bible makes it clear that He has given considerable power for example to his son Jesus:

MATTHEW 28:19
Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth

This is not because Jehovah Cannot rule himself directly (indeed, according to bible prophecy the kingdom government will in fact rule under Jesus for only 1000 years, subsequently all rulership will be handed back to The Father - compare 1 Cor 15:24) but in the meantime God has chosen to dignify others with relative powers to exercise rulership.

Jesus in turn dignifies certain of his followers with sharing kingdom authority

LUKE 22:28-30
However, you are the ones who have stuck with me+ in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

The above kingdom government will be comprised of a total of 144,000 individuals.


JW




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[Justin108]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient?

The purpose of the government, as with all governments, is to establish and enforce an administeration to maintain order in a new world system. While God is both omnipotent and omnicient by nature, this doesn't stop him choosing to delegate if that be his pleasure.

So you can't give me an actual rational reason other than "because God wants to"? In case this was not obvious from my OP, I want to know why God would want to?

In the case of us mere mortals, delegation makes absolute sense. We simply cannot handle massive amounts of work. In the face of God, delegation makes no sense whatsoever.

but in the meantime God has chosen to dignify others with relative powers to exercise rulership.

So God is delegating the task of ruling heaven just to make a few people feel special? But what would they actually do? That is my main question and the purpose of this OP. Asking why God delegates the task is just one of several questions that you ignored. I'm mainly interested in what these rulers actually do? Do they pass legislation? Economic regulations? Do they tend to the needs of the masses? What needs would these masses have in paradise? Do these rulers actually do something or do they just sit there on their thrones, feeling good about themselves?

[JehovahsWitness]

But what would they actually do? ... I'm mainly interested in what these rulers actually do? Do they pass legislation? Economic regulations? Do they tend to the needs of the masses? What needs would these masses have in paradise?

WHAT WILL THOSE RULING IN THE GOVERMENT ACTUALLY DO?

Once it is understood that the 144,000 actually make up a real governmental administration that will rule over THE EARTH, we can understand they will do what any other administration does (but better). While this government has been operating since 1914, full powers will not be extended regarding the planet earth, until it takes complete control, overthrowing all current governments. The bible calls of this change of system as "Armageddon".

After Armadeddon, there will be one world government (kingdom of 144,000)




Do they pass legislation?

Yes. No society can operate without legislation, some is already in evidence in the Christian bible, but the scriptures indicate there will be further legislation due to the changed circumstances.

Economic regulations?

Yes. When we refer to "the economy" we are in fact speaking about "careful management of available resources". Although money may well be a thing of the past, earth's resources will be handled via the administration that has a good global view of how much is being produced and how it is best distributed. Whatever production is present will also need to be organized at some level. Hunger and poverty will be things of the past.

Do they tend to the needs of the masses?

Absolutely!

What needs would these masses have in paradise?

There will be millions maybe billions of people living in their territory (the entire planet earth) that will need adequate food, clothing and housing, fulfilling work, a good clean environment in which to raise their families. Ensuring this is available for millions of people without exception with complete equality for all would be impossible without some kind of administration (thus "The Kingdom").

There will also be the need for ongoing education as to the rule of law, in short there will be a need for each member of society to fully understand the "justice system" (the rules by which the new human society operate and any consequences of breaking those rules). This is in fact a inseperable from the need for spiritual guidance since all true justice comes from God, and this new society will be based on how God sees things.

There will of course the need for a good health plan. Thanks to the powers given them, these rulerw will guide mankin back to perfection, perfect health. Death as a result of old age, deprivation or disease will eventually be a things of the past (see Rev 21:3, 4)

For a clearer explanation of governmental structure and purpose see the video below


Replying to post 115 by JehovahsWitness





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[Justin108]

Do they pass legislation?

Yes. No society can operate without legislation

Is sin still in existence in paradise? If this legislation did not exist, would people still sin?

Yes. When we refer to "the economy" we are in fact speaking about "careful management of available resources".

Paradise has finite resources?

There will be millions maybe billions of people living in their territory (the entire planet earth) that will need adequate food, clothing and housing, fulfilling work, a good clean environment in which to raise their families.

What if people did not get food. Would they die? Are people still mortal in paradise?

Ensuring this is available for millions of people without exception with complete equality for all would be impossible

Not if God made resources infinite.

There will of course the need for a good health plan.

Disease exists in paradise as well?

Death as a result of old age, deprivation or disease will eventually be a things of the past (see Rev 21:3, 4)

What kind of health plan can prevent death by old age? I was under the impression that the reason people never die in heaven/paradise is because death, hunger and disease no longer exists. You seem to disagree

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes. When we refer to "the economy" we are in fact speaking about "careful management of available resources".

Paradise has finite resources?

You do understand that we are talking about a government ruling over this our planet EARTH right? Does earth have limited resources?

(I ask because a lot of your questions seem to indicate to me I have not adequately communicated this very basic notion well enough).

[Justin108]

Yes. When we refer to "the economy" we are in fact speaking about "careful management of available resources".

Paradise has finite resources?

You do understand that we are talking about a government ruling over this our planet earth right? Does earth have limited resources?


(I ask because a lot of your questions seem to indicate to me I have not adequately communicated this very basic notion well enough).

I was under the impression paradise would be a "new earth". Whether it is located on this earth or on a different planet, I expected it to be greatly different from how earth is now. I was under the impression paradise would be a place of absolute perfection. It seems I was mistaken. The paradise you're describing is far from perfect.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by Justin108]

Okay, well let me put it clearer ...

God lives in heaven. God (using Jesus and 144,000 others) will destroy all the governments that are currently ruling. The center (seat/location) of the government itself will not be Washington, Paris or London, but heaven itself. They will rule over planet earth, this our present planet.

The day after this event nothing has changed except there is a new (world) government.

- the trees are all the same; the mountains are the same, the animals are the same...
- I am the same (I don't start glowing and hovering above the ground)
- my house (if it is still standing is still the same)
- millions of people that survive the event will be the same
- the planet will be the same

The day after Armageddon, everything is essentially still be the same EXCEPT...

We have a new government and the Queen of England is either dead or (hopefully for her) just unemployed. Same goes for every ruler and government and President you can name. No new planet but because there will be a new (competent: read perfect) government, things will at long long LONG last start moving in the right direction.

New governmental administration (see posts above with links, Q&As and videos). Paradise = this our present planet earth unchanged but under a new administration.

The paradise you're describing is far from perfect.

It will be but it will take a little time, 1000 years to be exact!

It has taken 6000 years of human history to get into this mess, we have polluted the planet, trashed our environment, mismanaged earth's resources and hurt each other. It will take according to bible prophecy 1000 years to sort it all out. A pretty good ratio if you ask me (6 to 1).

Things will feel a whole lot better immediately, war will instantly cease, not one more person will go to bed hungry, and a worldwide brotherhood (already in operation) will be free to express their love for each other without national borders. Satan will be disposed of and that alone will make life a pleasure beyond words.

The earth can repair and cleanse itself, if we would just stop polluting it. There will no doubt be a lot of rebuilding to do, re-organization to be done but that will be satisfying work. The welcoming back to life of dead loved ones will probably be progressive over a long period of time and the road back to physical, spiritual and emotional perfection will be a long one, 1000 years long.

So no, things won't be perfect right away, because we (human survivors) won't be, but things will be a whole lot better as of the first day because our government will be PERFECT. Personally, if me and my family are all alive with all bones and vital organs in place the day after Armageddon, its all good.



JW

[Justin108]

Okay, well let me put it clearer ...

God lives in heaven. God (using Jesus and 144,000 others) will destroy all the governments that are currently ruling.

The day after this event nothing has changed except there is a new (world) government.

- the trees are all the same; the mountains are the same, the animals are the same...
- I am the same (I don't start glowing and hovering above the ground)

Are you exactly the same? Are you still mortal? Do you still visibly age over time?

The paradise you're describing is far from perfect.

It will be but it will take a little time, 1000 years to be exact!

After the 1000 years, will resources still be finite? Will disease still exist? Will people still need food to survive?

It has taken 6000 years of human history to get into this mess

At this point, I would ask you to support your claim that humans have existed for only 6000 years but since this is Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma, I'll let it go

It will take according to bible prophecy 1000 years to sort it all out. A pretty good ratio if you ask me (6 to 1).

Considering God's omnipotence, I am much less impressed by the thousand year figure than you are.

[JehovahsWitness]

Okay, well let me put it clearer ...

God lives in heaven. God (using Jesus and 144,000 others) will destroy all the governments that are currently ruling.

The day after this event nothing has changed except there is a new (world) government.

- the trees are all the same; the mountains are the same, the animals are the same...
- I am the same (I don't start glowing and hovering above the ground)

Are you exactly the same? Are you still mortal?

Mortal refers to "a living human being... subjet to death." I just said, I am still the same, so yes I will still be a flesh and blood human that needs to eat to stay alive. Everybody else will also be human and if they decide to jump of a high building they will probably die.