The kingdom of God.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

[JehovahsWitness]

So even with that imagery - which I can safety assume is representative of [ YHWH (Jehovah)] there is still the overall impression of monarchism...

Jesus was very clear that he was a KING and he spoke of his coming "kingdom" more than any other subject. This is why Jehovah's Witness literature often shows the ressurected Jesus wearing a crown (symbolizing royality). I have posted several posts in this thread about the nature of his rulership.

Jehovah's Witnesses spend billions of hours a year going directly to people's homes speaking about this royal government (Jesus doesn't rule alone), if your point was anything but to state the obvious, ie Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is a king (monarch) and believe in his rulership (monarchy)... it would be interesting to read what that illusive point might possibly be?


JW

RELATED POSTS

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses illustrations depict the 144,000 all as white males?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 721#879721]

Does God's Kingdom meet the criteria of being called a literal government?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 759#883759

[Monta]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

You quoted Luke 16 - 'kingdom of God is preached and everyone is being zealously urged into it'. 'Zealously' speaks of urgency, now, and not some future time.

Jesus also said, 'the kingdom of God is within you'. Again it speaks of now, not sometime in the future or in the past.

[William]

[Replying to post 70 by onewithhim]

What if the God that is being represented were truly benevolent and worthy of being represented? What if He really was the Source of all life? What if He really did create everything? Why would we NOT honor Him?

Keeping in mind that you are answering a small portion of what i wrote, GOD can never be represented though form or imagery.
Honoring the notion of GOD is different from idolizing the biblical stories coming through Christendom regarding a king and a kingdom and what is expected of the subjects and all that specific elitist propaganda related to a white skinned, human looking individual on a throne, representing an elitist idea of GOD.

How is such imagery 'honoring GOD'? It is honoring an elitist idea of a GOD.

[William]

So even with that imagery - which I can safety assume is representative of [ YHWH (Jehovah)] there is still the overall impression of monarchism...

... it would be interesting to read what that illusive point might possibly be?

The point I am making in all my posts from #47 on, are to the point, not illusive. You simply taking a tiny part of what I have said and stating what you have in relation to that, is misrepresentation.
If indeed my points about Christendom, the JW organisation involved with that, and the deceptions related to that are truth then they are on point, then "JWs spending billions of hours a year going directly to people's homes speaking about this royal government" is a big part of spreading the deception. What deception? The one I clearly wrote of in post #47 and in the replies after that.

[tam]

Peace to you JW,

[Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

The King is in place now (since 1914)

I must disagree with the 1914 inference, based upon my Lord's own words. From His words, He has been "in place" for much much longer than that, considering all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him almost two thousand years ago. (Matt 28:18)

But also from His words to John (at the time He told John to write to the seven congregations):

The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev 3:21

Sat down. Past tense. He had already sat down on the throne by the time He told John to write to the seven congregations. By the time He even gave this revelation TO John.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Did you hear of Psalm 110? It says: "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord [the Messiah] is: 'Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet'." Jesus was to wait for quite a long time before taking his throne as King....until his enemies were subdued, and I would say that that coincided with the ending of the Gentile times mentioned at Luke 21:24. According to Bible chronology, those Gentile times ended in 1914.

An understanding of that is available, if a person wants to avail him or herself of that.

Psalm 110 does not make any of the assumptions you have drawn from it. His enemies are still on the earth and persecuting Him via persecuting His Bride.

If you were to say that He had to wait before returning and establishing His Kingdom (literally) upon the earth, then yes. But He is still waiting for this, waiting for His Father to tell Him that it is time. This has not yet happened. He did not return in 1914 (or the Great Tribulation would already have occurred, because, per the Bible and even per WTS teaching, His return is AFTER the Great Tribulation).

His return is YET to happen.

Every verse and prophecy that the WTS gives to indicate that there is a time period before Christ returns and begins His reign upon the earth, can (and does) apply to His return that is yet to happen.

The 1914 doctrine of the WTS is superfluous. Unnecessary. A failed prediction that has them jumping through hoops to try and defend it, rather than just admit that they were wrong and that Christ did not return in 1914. Instead they continue in their error (and others follow them in those same errors). Why? Because to admit that Christ did not return in 1914 would also reveal that the Master did not inspect them then, and so could not have declared them to be the faithful and discreet slave. Because the inspection is something the Master does upon His return.


If those in 'her' who are seeking Truth saw this, they might instead turn and come to Christ - the True and Faithful Witness (Rev 3:14).


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to hear the Spirit (Christ) and the Bride saying to YOU: "Come!" May any who thirst, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life."


Peace to you, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 74 by William]

If you consider Jesus' own claim to be a king as a "deception" you, and Pilate and the Pharisees are all welcome to that view. I personally am convinced that he is and that the Kingdom will come.


RELATED POSTS

What is God's Kingdom and what will it do? [video included]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 402#865402


As for the absolute nonsense of our loving Creator and Father being an "it" a "thing" (presumably devoid of independent thought or feeling) and the unbiblical idea that that He (God, Jehovah) will not intervene in man's affairs you are welcome to that idea as well, as for me I prefer to look to scripture which firmly and clearly denounces such ideas (see John 8:44).

Good day to you,

JW

JOHN 18:37
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.

RELATED POSTS

Is Jehovah a person or a "THING" (an "it")?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 680#876680

Does God have a sense of humor?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 863#883863

Does God have a body?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 263#858263

How do Jehovah's Witness literature illustrate Jehovah?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 266#884266

[Checkpoint]

Yes, Jesus concentrated on guiding his people in the preaching work when he took his throne in 1914. Before that, no he wasn't doing that.

So before 1914, Jehovah's Witnesses didn't preach? Or did they preach but were unguided by Jesus?

Fair question. Jehovah's people didn't do much preaching at all until around 1879 when Gods's Spirit began nudging people to pay attention to what the churches were doing or were not doing. It was time to get things organized for the final intensive preaching work to take place before the end of the system of things. (Matthew 24:14) One young man was troubled by the churches not preaching about Jesus Christ's ransom. He studied the Bible deeply and evaluated what the churches were teaching in light of what the Bible was saying. He found them all wanting, when he compared what they said with the Bible. He started a Bible study group which developed into the organization of the "Bible Students," which later became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. They went BACK to the original teachings of Jesus, before the great Apostasy had occurred.

When the organization was on solid footing and had begun reaching out beyond the United States, Jesus did begin guiding them when he began ruling in 1914.

Interesting story, but one that is similar to other folk.

Such as the Seventh Day Adventists and Mormons. And the Christadelphians and Armstrongism.

All of them could equally say what you wrote:

They went BACK to the original teachings of Jesus, before the great Apostasy had occurred.

[Checkpoint]

Also, please post your own words, or those of scripture, when replying to my posts, without organisation material.

You are not the boss of me. I will post any words I like, in any order with quotations from whatever organisational source I see fit. If you believe my posts violate forum guidelines feel free to report them. Otherwise I do believe that most computers have a mechanism by which one can scroll down if one finds the contents of a post personally displeasing.

I also believe there is an "ignore" option on this forum.

You're welcome,

JW

I second that. And I am using it more and more. People are making their positions known more firmly and more obviously as the days go by! They are making their choices as to whether or not they want the truth. (And haven't you been asked to explain Jehovah's Witnesses' viewpoint on things? What better way than to provide a link to those explanations? Yet you get castigated for giving "organizational material"!) Imagine outright rejecting Jesus' own guided spiritual material that refreshes all those who partake of it. It is quite baffling. But I guess it shouldn't be, as we know who rules the world! (I John 5:19)

Castigated? Really?

"Jesus' own guided spiritual material"? Really?

Baffling? Not really.

[Checkpoint]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

You quoted Luke 16 - 'kingdom of God is preached and everyone is being zealously urged into it'. 'Zealously' speaks of urgency, now, and not some future time.

Jesus also said, 'the kingdom of God is within you'. Again it speaks of now, not sometime in the future or in the past.

Yes, scripture speaks of the kingdom being present now, but no, it does also speak of it "sometime in the future".

They belong together.

[onewithhim]

Some seem to think it is entirely future, while others give the impression they are always thinking of it as present, and to not be looking at the future in kingdom terms at all.

Jesus had much to say about the kingdom, including this:

Luke 16:

6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.

So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?

On what basis?

According to which scriptures?

You quoted Luke 16 - 'kingdom of God is preached and everyone is being zealously urged into it'. 'Zealously' speaks of urgency, now, and not some future time.

Jesus also said, 'the kingdom of God is within you'. Again it speaks of now, not sometime in the future or in the past.

That is: "The kingdom of God IS IN YOUR MIDST." He was there among them, as the designated future King.

It was urgent back then that the Jews listen to Jesus and accept what he was saying because that was their only chance to become the permanent representatives of God's Kingdom and be part of the spirit-anointed group of believers that would reign in heaven. That was the crucial time-period for them to be associated with Christ and his future Messianic Rule.

It is urgent today because we are so near the end of Satan's world.