Paul changed Jesus' message.

[dio9]

The difference between Jesus message and Paul's is simply the dominion under God now or later.Paul taught God's dominion would come when Jesus returned. Until then Paul gathered people to wait for it. Paul's message was not to change the world but to endure the world . Jesus 'was to change the way things are done in this world. The difference between change and endurance are clear.

That said the original disciples of Jesus were about actually creating an independent Judea. Remember they were zealots who believed in the messianic prophecies of Israel. even Jesus' beloved disciples John and James asked Jesus to sit at his right hand in the kingdom. They believed until the end that meant the establishment of a real land liberated and independent under God not Caesar.

This focus didn't fade away until 10 or 20 years later and the destruction of the Temple. When Paul's gentile ministry led to and the getilization of the Church. Not thought of as a church by James John and Peter, it changed focus from Jewish messiah ism to Christian forgiveness endure sacrifice and waiting for Christ's return.

The point this rambling revelation is Jesus and his disciples believed in changing the status quo from a Provence in the Roman empire to an independent state under God not Caesar. Paul did not hold this independence belief, he was content to remain part of the Empire , with his gentile ministry he could do nothing else and changed the focus of Jesus' kingdom message.

please comment agree or disagree.

[dio9]

Jesus gives the words that were given to Him to His genuine followers. Paul never bothered to get those words so he never even knew the message of Jesus.

Some of the words of the Son of man are;

"Anyone who acts in truth comes to the light so his deeds are revealed as works of God."

" Whoever speaks on his own seems his own glory but He who seems the glory of the one who sent him is truthful and there is no righteousness in him. "

Yes the prophet said to God my words are not your words, but God said to the prophet my words can be your words.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 18 by alwayson]

yes I do but still Paul supported Roman authority while Jesus separated himself from Rome saying give to Rome only what has Caesar's face on it implying the land is God's to be given to God.

[dio9]

The people who wrote the book and the readers of the book were about a restoration of independence. Ask any Rabbi.

Why would I care what "any Rabbi" thinks? If I recall correctly it was the "respected" religious leaders of his day that Jesus called "whitewashed graves" and "serpents" and that eventually schemed to have Christ killed. Evidently attending some higher school of religious learning does not render one immune to twisted thinking and Satanic falsehoods. I certainly don't look to the religious "clergy" of Judaism for any spiritual guidance.


I will take this opportunity to point out my question was not what the Roman authorities believed nor what Rabbis past or present believe but what we can deduce about what Jesus himself believed.

Jesus ... believed in changing the status quo from a Provence in the Roman empire to an independent state under God not Caesar.

I was seeking some specific biblical references for the above.



JW

You should care because rabbi types wrote the bible. Ask the author I say. If you read a story and then read what the author said about it you will find insights you never imagined.

[dio9]

Paul was a Roman sympathizer . ( synonym Nazi sympathizer) The fact is Jesus was executed because he was a dissenter.

[JP Cusick]

Paul was a Roman sympathizer . ( synonym Nazi sympathizer) The fact is Jesus was executed because he was a dissenter.

I tend to agree with this except for the fact that you exclude the reality that the game changed from Jesus to Paul, and so because the game changed then the message changed too between Jesus and Paul.

Yes Jesus can be seen as a dissenter and as an agitator and as civil disobedience, but the people rejected Jesus and thereby the game changed.

Then Paul came along later as "an apostle" "born out of due time" see 1 Corinthians 15:8-10

So Paul had a different message because the situation and the times had changed.

Paul was like the second Moses, as already said in comment #2.

If the people had embraced Jesus instead of rejecting the Christ, then Rome would have fallen in that 1st century, but since Christ was rejected then Rome was punished by God for the next 400+ years (unto the 4th generation), and so Paul had a revised message based on the changed reality.

[JehovahsWitness]

You should care because rabbi types wrote the bible. Ask the author I say. If you read a story and then read what the author said about it you will find insights you never imagined.

I don't know what you mean by a "Rabbi Type"; Jewish religious leaders issued from religious institutions of higher learning, whether past or present never claimed to be the author of any part of the bible. The bible writers implied they were writing under the authoriship of Almighty God I would agree prayer (as in asking "the author") is a very good thing to do.

Why did Jesus write nothing?
viewtopic.php?p=336543#p336543

[dio9]

[Replying to post 24 by JP Cusick]

it wasn't the propel who rejected Jesus it was the Priests Herodians and Sadducees. Remember it was Herod who killed John. There was politics and money involved in Jesus' execution. Jesus was a challenge to the Judeo-Roman establishment . If you know your history the founder of the kingdom , Herod the great , was a Roman surrogate king. The Herod s were illegitimate striving for legitimacy. John and later Jesus were a challenge to their rule.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

The point here is from the time of the prophets , Israel was led to believe, the Messianic expectation was restoration of the Davidic monarchy. Scripturally David was even promised by " God almighty" that his dynasty would last forever. So the people were led to believe the Messiah would restore the Kingdom of David AKA the Kingdom of God.

[Elijah John]

Responding simply to the title of your OP, yes, Paul changed Jesus' message.

Jesus preached the Father, (God), and Paul preached Jesus.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 28 by Elijah John]

True but still the point I am driving to is the land . The Messiah was about uniting the land with God through the promise to given to the people through Abraham. God and the land is like spirit and flesh .