"The whole Bible is about Jesus"...

[Elijah John]

It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".

For debate:

1) Is this so, and if so, where is Jesus in the Old Testament? Which passages exactly?

2) And if specific passages are cited, how are these passages specifically referring to Jesus, or even the Messiah? And how is this the only reasonable interpretation of those verses?

3) If the "Old" Testament (Hebrew Bible) is really all about Jesus, why do you suppose that the vast majority of Jews don't see him there?

Please address any combination of the above.

[JehovahsWitness]

3) If the "Old" Testament (Hebrew Bible) is really all about Jesus, why do you suppose that the vast majority of Jews don't see him there?

Please address any combination of the above.

The Jews today fail to see Jesus as the fulfillment of their own scripture for a similar reason the majority of the Jews failed to put faith in him when he was on earth, namely they misinterprete scripture.

The first century Jews misinterpreted scripture because their motives were selfish, they were looking for a warrior Messiah that would instigate revolt and free them from the despised Roman yoke; they had no interest in this lowly carpenter from the backwoods, preaching some heavenly kingdom and urging submission.

The masses then, like the religious masses today, are hoodwinked and manipulated by their religious leaders whose sole interest was in furthering their own political and economic interests. The lies and misinformation deliberately propogated in the first century around the person of Jesus continue amongst the Jewish community today, creating a bias that blinds many to the obvious.


JW



Did Jesus fulfill the Messianic Prophecies?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p847881




Video Presentation: Gerrit Loisch: Fortified by "the Prophetic Word" [5"30]
tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODStudio/pub-jwban_201503_1_VIDEO

Further reading
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... fulfilled/

What are the odds?
http://www.bereanpublishers.com/the-odd ... ming-true/

[alwayson]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the exact Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.

Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.

Isaiah 52-53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.

[theophile]

1) Is this so, and if so, where is Jesus in the Old Testament? Which passages exactly?

I think such a claim only makes sense if you loosen up on Jesus as a specific individual, and see him instead as the realization of what human beings were called to be from the very beginning: the image of God.

In that sense, Jesus as a concept is operative throughout the bible as our calling, failure, and, in our finest moments, presence.

And you could say, arguably, that "the whole bible is about Jesus," since the whole bible is about humankind fulfilling this role on earth.

[JP Cusick]

It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".

Please address any combination of the above.

It is more accurate to say that Jesus was involved in the entire Bible because it was more about certain people, as like being about the children of Israel, being about David and Solomon, about Adam and Eve, about each of the Prophets, but Jesus was always included.

Some examples here:

The "voice" of God walking through the "Garden of Eden" then that was Jesus as the "voice" walking through, see Genesis 3:8-10

The New Testament tells that Jesus was the "word of God" and that word means the spokesperson for God, and thereby the word and the "voice" of God are synonymous.

Another example from Ezekiel 36:4 = "... hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to ..."

The one speaking for God is the spokesperson who was Jesus the Christ.

The ten commandments in Exodus 20:1 "And God spake all these words, saying, ..."

That speaker or spokesperson is the word of God otherwise known as Jesus, see John 1:1-5

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Septuagint version of Zechariah 3 and 6 gives the exact Greek name of Jesus, describing him as confronting Satan, being crowned king in heaven, called "the man named 'Rising'" who is said to rise from his place below, building up God’s house, given supreme authority over God’s domain and ending all sins in a single day.

Daniel 9 describes a messiah dying before the end of the world.

Isaiah 52-53 describes the cleansing of the world's sins by the death of a servant.

I'll have to take your word for that, as I know very very little about Greek or the Septuagint. Perhaps someone more knowledgable will weigh in.

Assuming that Jesus is indeed named by name in the Septuagint, considering that Jesus- Messiah is not named in the OT/Hebrew Bible, wouldn't it then be reasonable to conclude that the Greek translators and editors of the Bible added his name to the OT because it suited their Christian agenda?

[Elijah John]

It has been said by Christian apologists, (especially Evangelical and Fundamentalist) that the "whole Bible is about Jesus".

Please address any combination of the above.

It is more accurate to say that Jesus was involved in the entire Bible because it was more about certain people, as like being about the children of Israel, being about David and Solomon, about Adam and Eve, about each of the Prophets, but Jesus was always included.

Some examples here:

The "voice" of God walking through the "Garden of Eden" then that was Jesus as the "voice" walking through, see Genesis 3:8-10

The New Testament tells that Jesus was the "word of God" and that word means the spokesperson for God, and thereby the word and the "voice" of God are synonymous.

Another example from Ezekiel 36:4 = "... hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to ..."

The one speaking for God is the spokesperson who was Jesus the Christ.

The ten commandments in Exodus 20:1 "And God spake all these words, saying, ..."

That speaker or spokesperson is the word of God otherwise known as Jesus, see John 1:1-5

That's reading Jesus into it, don't you think? Projecting John's interpretation backwards, into the "Old" Testament.

Revisionism.

[alwayson]

[Replying to post 6 by Elijah John]

When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.

The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.

[JP Cusick]

When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.

The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.

The Hebrew name of Yeshua is hidden but exposed in the linguistics of the Tao Te Ching chapter #14 where it is equivalent to the words in the Bible, see here:

We look for it but do not see it; [ Eyes but can not see. ]
we name it "subtle."
We listen for it but do not hear it; [ Ears but can not hear. ]
we name it "rare."
We grope for it but do not grasp it; [ Heart which can not understand. ]
we name it "serene."
---

In the old Chinese language then these three words "subtle, rare, serene" combined (united) have the sound of "yuh-hsyuh-wuh" which is like Yeshua (Joshua) which is the Hebrew name for Jesus, per reference page 115, of the Tao Te Ching, 1990, by Victor H. Mair.

It also says that because of that "Tao Te Ching" book coming from the 6th century BCE then the Scholar thought that the words might have been saying "Yahweh" but it was closer to Yeshua and so they could not see it as talking about Jesus, but we can see that as a type of prophesy of the Christ from old China.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 6 by Elijah John]

When you translate Zechariah's Yeshua from Hebrew into Greek, you get IÄ“sous.

The same Greek name of Jesus in the New Testament.

When you translate Yeshua in Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua (151 times), Judges, 1 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Nehemiah, Haggai and Zechariah from Hebrew into Greek, you get Iēsous.( Ἰησοῦς )

The same Greek name of Joshua in Luke, Acts and Hebrews.