Biblical action takes place in the Middle East, with wars and interference from God, just like the Trojan War. The Chinese believe that the Master Baker tried three times to get people baked properly. He took them out of the over too soon (white) then burned them (black) and finally got them just right. It's nice to think God favours us - we do here in Britain - but does the Bible's preoccupation with the skirmishes of Arab tribes not suggest he's a fabrication, like the Chinese Master Baker?
Does the preoccupation with favoured tribes in the Middle East suggest God is made up?
Why would God ignore the rest of humanity?
Why did God ignore China?
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Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #11Why would the God described in the Bible give heretical doctrines to these people?Elijah John wrote:He [God] gave them Confucianism and Taoism. […]
Religions are cultural expressions of a people's attempt to relate to the Divine, or the numinous Mystery that so many sense.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
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First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
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Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #12[Replying to post 11 by McCulloch]
We know different people use and assimilate language differently. Language goes hand-in-hand with truth. Definitions are sometimes all the truth there is.
A very intriguing question.
But it seems the answer is an eventual death match between all cultures, until one wins,if there is, or is not a God...
A very intriguing question: It really allows for God's word to change with time. As peoples' cultures mature, it may be that old parochial beliefs, like Judaism, might need to be replaced by a new truth, like Christianity, not because God had changed or become imperfect, but because man has changed.
With the advent of a Heaven where there wasn't before, it may be that mankind improved to the point where he could deserve one.
Did I say intriguing?
[Replying to post 6 by marco]
Gotta love that Middle-Eastern peace and happiness.
The "tough love" God showed the Jews is the same tough love no god showed everyone else - it is a lucky people who haven't been uprooted or mass murdered and worse.
In fact when we look at the peoples who are no longer with us, through genocide or assimilation, we understand there is an entire spectrum of peoples. Entire populations of Jews who were removed from history despite any belief in God, cultures destroyed by Christianity in prelude to the Dark Ages, native tribes of many nations.
There are many folks with longevity - Gaelic's, Chinese, African. We even find many older, since though religion says one thing, history says the people of Jerusalem were Seleucid until about 300 BCE.
In short, there is nothing special that happened to Jews that hasn't happened to anyone else. They are just a small blip on the human spectrum.
You can't even claim longevity: The Jewish religion is nothing like what it was 2000 years ago, when was the last time rams were sacrificed, and so on?
Hmmm, perhaps the truth depends on culture and humanity.Why would the God described in the Bible give heretical doctrines to these people?
We know different people use and assimilate language differently. Language goes hand-in-hand with truth. Definitions are sometimes all the truth there is.
A very intriguing question.
But it seems the answer is an eventual death match between all cultures, until one wins,if there is, or is not a God...
A very intriguing question: It really allows for God's word to change with time. As peoples' cultures mature, it may be that old parochial beliefs, like Judaism, might need to be replaced by a new truth, like Christianity, not because God had changed or become imperfect, but because man has changed.
With the advent of a Heaven where there wasn't before, it may be that mankind improved to the point where he could deserve one.
Did I say intriguing?
[Replying to post 6 by marco]
Gotta love that Middle-Eastern peace and happiness.
The "tough love" God showed the Jews is the same tough love no god showed everyone else - it is a lucky people who haven't been uprooted or mass murdered and worse.
In fact when we look at the peoples who are no longer with us, through genocide or assimilation, we understand there is an entire spectrum of peoples. Entire populations of Jews who were removed from history despite any belief in God, cultures destroyed by Christianity in prelude to the Dark Ages, native tribes of many nations.
There are many folks with longevity - Gaelic's, Chinese, African. We even find many older, since though religion says one thing, history says the people of Jerusalem were Seleucid until about 300 BCE.
In short, there is nothing special that happened to Jews that hasn't happened to anyone else. They are just a small blip on the human spectrum.
You can't even claim longevity: The Jewish religion is nothing like what it was 2000 years ago, when was the last time rams were sacrificed, and so on?
Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #13Those eastern faiths are not heretical to Jesus Christ - they are not heretical to the Father God - they are not heretical to the Bible.McCulloch wrote:Why would the God described in the Bible give heretical doctrines to these people?Elijah John wrote:He [God] gave them Confucianism and Taoism. […]
Religions are cultural expressions of a people's attempt to relate to the Divine, or the numinous Mystery that so many sense.
They are only viewed as heretical by western prejudice and by the western superiority complex.
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Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #14What is "heresy"? From God's perspective that is.McCulloch wrote:Why would the God described in the Bible give heretical doctrines to these people?Elijah John wrote:He [God] gave them Confucianism and Taoism. […]
Religions are cultural expressions of a people's attempt to relate to the Divine, or the numinous Mystery that so many sense.
From man's perspective, heresy is anything that differs from "my religion", whatever "my religion" happens to be.
Last edited by Elijah John on Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #15Elijah John wrote:
He didn't, he gave them Confucianism and Taoism. Never heard of that baker's myth, though.
Religions are cultural expressions of a people's attempt to relate to the Divine, or the numinous Mystery that so many sense.
I cannot imagine Yahweh, the jealous God, in any of his manifestations, offering Taoism, since it does not accept a God, though it incudes many gods. It is simply a path in life, a philosophy, not a means of worshipping the Almighty.
From Confucius we get an admirable moral system of behaviour, shorn of the necessity for God. So again I would imagine Yahweh didn't contribute or inspire.
Religions may be expressions of the divine, but they often oppose each other in what they teach. If God, as you imply, inspires religions, he's the engineer of his own disasters and misapprehensions.
Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #16Well this is not quite the case. The Bible requires human beings to worship the one God. Taoism incorporates many, but does not acknowledge a single God. Confucius is the philosophical offering of Confucius who lived before Christ came along. Had he been divinely approved there would have been no need for Jesus to add a contrary message, namely: you must love God first and people second. Confucius didn't say this.JP Cusick wrote:
Those eastern faiths are not heretical to Jesus Christ - they are not heretical to the Father God - they are not heretical to the Bible.
When we see an admirable set of beliefs it is tempting to say that's what the Bible says. It most certainly doesn't. You won't get Confucius asking people to murder their sons.
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Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #17Sorry, I don’t have any reason to think God ignored others. On the contrary, I believe the other than Jews ignored God.marco wrote: ...
Why would God ignore the rest of humanity?
And about the Chinese, I don’t think God has ignored them, because Genesis seems to be included in their language:
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Post #18
No, Roman was the center of the Empire. A crossroads is where various empires and cultures overlap. However, using your imagery, the Scriptures only document Adonai's work with a small village. Just because something is excludes from an anthology of documents does not mean that is has been totally ignored. It is just not the focus of that anthology. There are a myriad of documents claiming to record the activities of the various other villages in the "metropolis" and their relationships with a deity, or deities.marco wrote:The crossroads of the world, when Christ arrived to spread the good news, was undoubtedly Rome. The cradle of civilisation may well have been Mesopotamia, and one can imagine the Garden of Goodness placed between the Tigris and Euphrates. It is a tall order asking the original chosen ones to abandon their countless wars, their Babylonian and Egyptian captivities, to announce Yahweh to the four corners. On the face of it God worked with a small village and forgot the metropolis.bluethread wrote: Adonai established His people as a light to the nations at the crossroads of the world. Even evolutionist say that humanity passed through the mid-east, though they argue that it originated in Africa. The trade routes passed through the middle east.
Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #19Every person does have the same God.marco wrote: The Bible requires human beings to worship the one God.
The same God of the Bible is of the Qur'an and of the Tao and Hindu and Buddhist and Shamans and etc etc etc.
You are the non-believer here trying to put God into your own limitations.
Taoist people do not follow the "Tao Te" correctly, just like Christian people who do not follow Christ correctly, and Buddhist do not follow the Buddha correctly, and Atheist who do not follow Atheism correctly, and etc etc etc.marco wrote: Taoism incorporates many, but does not acknowledge a single God.
The book of Taoism called the "Tao Te Ching" applies to God and to Christ in its own peculiar way, and it is a wonderful book.
When I read the Analects of Confucius then I saw it as completely compatible with the Gospel, and Jesus did not give anything contrary to Confucius.marco wrote: Confucius is the philosophical offering of Confucius who lived before Christ came along. Had he been divinely approved there would have been no need for Jesus to add a contrary message, namely: you must love God first and people second. Confucius didn't say this.
You are just being religiously bigoted - and that is what shuts your self out.
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Re: Why did God ignore China?
Post #20[Replying to post 1 by marco]
9 times out of 10 imho an ignored society is one that keeps killing the prophets God sends them.
Here is something fun to read:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did ... ntity/amp/
9 times out of 10 imho an ignored society is one that keeps killing the prophets God sends them.
Here is something fun to read:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did ... ntity/amp/
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."