Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

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Elijah John
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Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Anyone familiar with Lee Strobel's Case for Christ or Case for Christianity?

What do you think of his arguments. (examples please)
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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McCulloch
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Post #11

Post by McCulloch »

Elijah John wrote:Do they offer better arguments anyway?
You might want to stop searching for better arguments. Christian apologists have been at it since the first century. If there were better arguments, you would expect that they might have discovered them.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
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rikuoamero
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Post #12

Post by rikuoamero »

Elijah John wrote: I agree with much of what has been said here on this thread. Some of it refreshing coming from fellow believers.

Added twist...how does Strobel compare with other popular apologists, like Josh McDowell?

Not familiar with W L Craig, but are authors such as Luke Timothy Johnson, and David Limbaugh any more convincing? (both have written books about the "real" Jesus)

Do they offer better arguments anyway?
Do they offer evidence is a more pertinent question, don't you think? I'm going to coin a new phrase. Someone else might have said it but if theybhave...tough.

Reality is the final arbiter of arguments.

Do you understand what I mean by that EJ?
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Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"

I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #13

Post by Elijah John »

McCulloch wrote:
Elijah John wrote:Do they offer better arguments anyway?
You might want to stop searching for better arguments. Christian apologists have been at it since the first century. If there were better arguments, you would expect that they might have discovered them.
Not saying ultimately or completely convincing to the skeptic, but rather only that some arguments are better than others.

Or are you suggesting they are all the same?

Is C.S. Lewis better than Stobel, for example.

Or Aquinas than McDowell.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

paarsurrey1
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Re: Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

Post #14

Post by paarsurrey1 »

Inigo Montoya wrote: [Replying to post 3 by bjs]


I'd be keen to read a catalogue of logical fallacies employed regularly by Sam Harris if you find the time.

Strobel has no better luck establishing his "pillars accepted by the majority of theological scholarship" as facts than anyone else that's tried. I bet he and Craig enjoy some quality tea parties together.
"pillars accepted by the majority of theological scholarship"
I want to read them. Please provide the link where these are mentioned.
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Re: Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

Post #15

Post by paarsurrey1 »

Danmark wrote:
bjs wrote: [Replying to Elijah John]

I think of Strobel basically the same way that I think of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens. They appeal to those who already agree with them, but commit a variety of logical fallacies that those who are not already on their side are less likely to overlook.
Strobel, a journalist and 3d rate author has little in common with Dawkins, Harris, or Hitchens. The latter three base their arguments on fact and on lack of evidence for the truth of religion. Dawkins actually IS a scientist and understands his material. Strobel simply collected some quotes from others to justify his beliefs without doing any original work himself.
Hitchens
The latter three base their arguments on fact and on lack of evidence for the truth of religion.
I have read "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. He had no deep study of religion, to be more specific, about Islam. He could not quote even a single verse from Quran in support of his viewpoint. If I missed something, please quote the verses of Quran he mentioned in that book.
Anybody, please.
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Post #16

Post by bjs »

Earlier I suggested that, at least when it comes to Strobel, Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens, those who already agreed with them seem to find their arguments valid. On the other hand, those who did not agree with them from the start tend to be less impressed with their arguments.

The posts on this thread seems to provide at least some support for that hypothesis.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Danmark
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Re: Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

Post #17

Post by Danmark »

paarsurrey1 wrote:
I have read "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. He had no deep study of religion, to be more specific, about Islam. He could not quote even a single verse from Quran in support of his viewpoint.
Perhaps you confused "could not quote" with "did not quote." Hitchens erudition and knowledge are on full display here even if you did not detect it in his books:


Another error you make is in your equating knowledge of an ancient religious text with science and actual evidence. This is one of the errors most repeated here, the false equivalence of science, a study of what we actually can know, with a bunch of ancient claims by thousands of different cultures about something that defies what we can actually observe. It's like comparing astronomy to astrology.

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Regens Küchl
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Post #18

Post by Regens Küchl »

One problem with this book: The title is false-faced!

It is
"The Case for Christ: A journalists Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus"

When it should be
"The Case for Christ: A presupposionalists Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus"


Strobels apologetic trick here is to imitate a neutral stance and journalistic integrity when his book itself proves he owns neither of that!

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Re: Lee Stobel's case for Christ/Christianity.

Post #19

Post by paarsurrey1 »

Danmark wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:
I have read "God Is Not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. He had no deep study of religion, to be more specific, about Islam. He could not quote even a single verse from Quran in support of his viewpoint.
Perhaps you confused "could not quote" with "did not quote." Hitchens erudition and knowledge are on full display here even if you did not detect it in his books:


Another error you make is in your equating knowledge of an ancient religious text with science and actual evidence. This is one of the errors most repeated here, the false equivalence of science, a study of what we actually can know, with a bunch of ancient claims by thousands of different cultures about something that defies what we can actually observe. It's like comparing astronomy to astrology.
Another error you make is in your equating knowledge of an ancient religious text with science and actual evidence.
Sorry, I don't do that. I follow science where one should follow science and I follow religion/revelation where science does not work.
Please quote me where one got this impression from. Right, please?
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Post #20

Post by Elijah John »

I saw the movie, and did not find it convincing as an apologetic. I did, however, find it compelling as a heartwarming love story about how a couple copes with their religious differences. (She was the first to believe).
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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