I have read the bible up and down left and right. There are lots of things about abominations etc etc. What it doesn't say though is whether or not non-believers can have gay marriage. In fact the laws and commandments in the bible are specifically for the Jews. Jesus opened that up and through Paul's doctrine that became inclusive of the gentiles(those who were believers).
So question for debate does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Can anyone find a verse saying that non-believers cannot have gay marriage?
Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #51Your making another equivocation. Rape is accepted in our society as morally wrong. It certainly is an atypical behavior as it is not common. However, not all societies treat rape the same way. The unfortunate reality is that there is not a universal acceptance of rape as an immoral act.RightReason wrote: [Replying to Bust Nak]
Riiiiight . . . and rape is just atypical but not necessarily wrong.Except the "wrong" with missing arms or bulimia means atypical, not immoral. It's an equivocation fallacy.
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #52True, rape is not necessarily wrong, but that's moot since rape is incidentally wrong. Do you have a better rebuttal?RightReason wrote: Riiiiight . . . and rape is just atypical but not necessarily wrong.
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #53[Replying to Bust Nak]
No rebuttal necessary for those who actually attempt to argue rape is not wrong. And no, it is not situational. There is no situation where rape is ever acceptable. Period. I'm amazed when people can't admit this.
No rebuttal necessary for those who actually attempt to argue rape is not wrong. And no, it is not situational. There is no situation where rape is ever acceptable. Period. I'm amazed when people can't admit this.
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #54No one here has argued that rape is acceptable. Simply pointed out that this is not universally accepted. In fact certain Christian sects in the US have long argued that marital rape doesn't exist and that once married a man can do with his wife as he wishes. You seemingly fail to make a rebuttal out of frustration that there is no universal acceptance of your natural laws.RightReason wrote: [Replying to Bust Nak]
No rebuttal necessary for those who actually attempt to argue rape is not wrong. And no, it is not situational. There is no situation where rape is ever acceptable. Period. I'm amazed when people can't admit this.
Slavery should be universally immoral but some have even argued on these forums for slavery. That slavery is ok. I get it's frustrating when not everyone shares your moral viewpoint, the reality is that we live in a morally diverse world.
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #55[Replying to DanieltheDragon]
“Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable.� –G.K. Chesterton
Anyway, I believe you just made my point. It is silly to argue that truth is relative. The argument is self refuting.
X: It is absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth.
Y: Is that true?
Yes, it is. All cultures in all times acknowledge the wrongness of rape. If there ever was some individual or even group that condoned rape – that doesn’t mean rape is acceptable. It would simply mean that individual or group got it wrong. Also, it would probably be easy to demonstrate that that individual or group knows it’s wrong, but doesn’t care – proving all men are capable of recognizing right/wrong.No one here has argued that rape is acceptable. Simply pointed out that this is not universally accepted.
“Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable.� –G.K. Chesterton
Again, the fact that you can find some who do or accept immoral things does not mean those things aren’t immoral.In fact certain Christian sects in the US have long argued that marital rape doesn't exist and that once married a man can do with his wife as he wishes.
Ha, ha, ha . . . there doesn’t have to be an acceptance of natural law. It just is. It doesn’t really matter if you accept it or not. LOL!there is no universal acceptance of your natural laws.
Ah ha! So, you admit it should be immoral. How do you know that? Why? Why should all men admit/accept slavery as immoral? It just is, right? Thank you for at least recognizing this is something all reasonable people can and should agree on.Slavery should be universally immoral but some have even argued on these forums for slavery.
Anyway, I believe you just made my point. It is silly to argue that truth is relative. The argument is self refuting.
X: It is absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth.
Y: Is that true?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #56That's moot since I am not actually attempt to argue rape is not wrong.RightReason wrote: No rebuttal necessary for those who actually attempt to argue rape is not wrong.
Who are you talking to, and why does your post says "[Replying to Bust Nak]"?And no, it is not situational. There is no situation where rape is ever acceptable. Period. I'm amazed when people can't admit this.
Nowhere in my response have I implied, let alone stated that there are situation where rape is acceptable. So my question remains, do you have a better rebuttal?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #57[Replying to post 54 by RightReason]
How do we decide what is and isn't a natural law?
What are the natural laws?
Neither does your opinion of morality make it universally applicable. My point being is that no one really agrees on a universal code of morality. Let's for a second agree that there is a natural law.Again, the fact that you can find some who do or accept immoral things does not mean those things aren’t immoral
How do we decide what is and isn't a natural law?
What are the natural laws?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #58[Replying to Bust Nak]
This is what you said:
This is what you said:
When is it not necessarily wrong? When is it right/good?True, rape is not necessarily wrong, but that's moot since rape is incidentally wrong. Do you have a better rebuttal?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #59[Replying to post 56 by DanieltheDragon]
Sure they do. All men can recognize right/wrong/good/bad. And we do and operate accordingly on a daily basis, whether you can admit it now or not. Again, someone violating this universal code of morality does not mean the code doesn’t exist.My point being is that no one really agrees on a universal code of morality.
Great – it does.Let's for a second agree that there is a natural law.
Asked and answered. All men can know right/wrong/good/bad via observation of man and man’s relationship with the world we live in via reason and logic. We can observe how the world works, accept and acknowledge the science/biology/order/design and recognize what makes sense.How do we decide what is and isn't a natural law?
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Re: Does the bible outlaw gay marriage for non-believers?
Post #60Always. Rape is never necessarily wrong.RightReason wrote: This is what you said:
When is it not necessarily wrong?True, rape is not necessarily wrong, but that's moot since rape is incidentally wrong. Do you have a better rebuttal?
Never. Rape is always wrong.When is it right/good?
My question remains, do you have a better rebuttal against my accusation of an equivocation fallacy, re: "the "wrong" with missing arms or bulimia means atypical, as opposed to immoral.