If the real, historical Jesus in the Monotheistic culture of first century Judaism had actually gone around claiming to be YHVH God in the flesh, would anyone have believed him and listened to anything he had to say?
Or is it more likely they would have dismissed him as insane?
Would anyone have listened to Jesus
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Elijah John
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Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Post #31
[Replying to post 28 by Tired of the Nonsense]
"It is clear that there were many stories of the glorious things that Jesus did which began to circulate in the years after Jesus was dead. Here is a list of the documents which were written about Jesus during the first, second and third centuries. "
I won't copy/paste yur list as everyone would have read it already.
I find the New Testament and the Revelation so extraordinary that I am
convinced it was recorded under Divine guidance therefore inspired and
ended up in the printed form by the will of God.
All the other writings were not included also by the will of God.
"It is clear that there were many stories of the glorious things that Jesus did which began to circulate in the years after Jesus was dead. Here is a list of the documents which were written about Jesus during the first, second and third centuries. "
I won't copy/paste yur list as everyone would have read it already.
I find the New Testament and the Revelation so extraordinary that I am
convinced it was recorded under Divine guidance therefore inspired and
ended up in the printed form by the will of God.
All the other writings were not included also by the will of God.
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Willum
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Post #32
[Replying to post 31 by Monta]
Yep, it's exactly like the other "Greatest Story Ever Told."
Star Wars.
There was the original three great works, then everybody and their grandmother starts writing up drivel.
You'll notice how few people write up drivel about mathematics, electronics, or anything else that is TRUE.
Perhaps Judeo-Christianity is the exception.
Yep, it's exactly like the other "Greatest Story Ever Told."
Star Wars.
There was the original three great works, then everybody and their grandmother starts writing up drivel.
You'll notice how few people write up drivel about mathematics, electronics, or anything else that is TRUE.
Perhaps Judeo-Christianity is the exception.
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PghPanther
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Re: Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #33[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Your inquiry assumes that this Christ actually said such things......
...it could very well be that the statements and quotes attributed to a Christ in the NT may be nothing more than embellished stories/words told through verbal exchanges by believers that took on a life of their own into the supernatural realm of embellishment before they were written down....
Your inquiry assumes that this Christ actually said such things......
...it could very well be that the statements and quotes attributed to a Christ in the NT may be nothing more than embellished stories/words told through verbal exchanges by believers that took on a life of their own into the supernatural realm of embellishment before they were written down....
Re: Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #34How do we evaluate 'love they neighbor as thyself'?PghPanther wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
Your inquiry assumes that this Christ actually said such things......
...it could very well be that the statements and quotes attributed to a Christ in the NT may be nothing more than embellished stories/words told through verbal exchanges by believers that took on a life of their own into the supernatural realm of embellishment before they were written down....
Does the meaning change whether Christ says it or someone else?
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Willum
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Post #35
Yet another way to look at it is:
If Jesus arrived today, as he allegedly did 2000 years ago, would anyone believe him? Would you believe him?
Put yourself in your own shoes.
Some migrant/refugee claims she had a virgin birth, several years after the conception event took place.
The father only knows he is not the father.
Claims of healing that have less aplomb than evangelistic roadshows.
He gets tortured somewhere and comes back from the dead, according to some source.
Assume this is recorded.
Do you believe it?
Why do you believe it out of a Book written 300 years after the fact?
If Jesus arrived today, as he allegedly did 2000 years ago, would anyone believe him? Would you believe him?
Put yourself in your own shoes.
Some migrant/refugee claims she had a virgin birth, several years after the conception event took place.
The father only knows he is not the father.
Claims of healing that have less aplomb than evangelistic roadshows.
He gets tortured somewhere and comes back from the dead, according to some source.
Assume this is recorded.
Do you believe it?
Why do you believe it out of a Book written 300 years after the fact?
> Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #36This is one of the big miracles, because the Gospel accounts do stand the test of time.Willum wrote: Yet another way to look at it is:
If Jesus arrived today, as he allegedly did 2000 years ago, would anyone believe him? Would you believe him?
Put yourself in your own shoes.
Some migrant/refugee claims she had a virgin birth, several years after the conception event took place.
The father only knows he is not the father.
Claims of healing that have less aplomb than evangelistic roadshows.
He gets tortured somewhere and comes back from the dead, according to some source.
Assume this is recorded.
Do you believe it?
Why do you believe it out of a Book written 300 years after the fact?
Many other beliefs and religions and philosophies have come and gone - yet this one about Jesus Christ remains and endures.
It is even arguable that this same Jesus of 2000 years ago is indeed the most powerful person in the entire world now into the 21st century.
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Willum
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Re: > Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #37[Replying to post 36 by JP Cusick]
Many beliefs have come and gone, but indeed Jews and Christians of today are very different from not only hundreds of years ago, but from just forty.
There are new cults all the time, and those cults grow with modern perspective to become mainstream religion.
Who empowers a politicians to go to war, murdering and displacing people when he doesn't have the right? God.
Many beliefs have come and gone, but indeed Jews and Christians of today are very different from not only hundreds of years ago, but from just forty.
There are new cults all the time, and those cults grow with modern perspective to become mainstream religion.
Interesting observation, but I think of it in quite the opposite intent. I see politicians invoking Jesus as a higher authority to justify their crimes against humanity.It is even arguable that this same Jesus of 2000 years ago is indeed the most powerful person in the entire world now into the 21st century.
Who empowers a politicians to go to war, murdering and displacing people when he doesn't have the right? God.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
Re: > Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #38As long as the growth includes growing maturity and more truth then I say go cults.Willum wrote: There are new cults all the time, and those cults grow with modern perspective to become mainstream religion.
I do not find that to be true.Willum wrote:Interesting observation, but I think of it in quite the opposite intent. I see politicians invoking Jesus as a higher authority to justify their crimes against humanity.JP Cusick wrote:It is even arguable that this same Jesus of 2000 years ago is indeed the most powerful person in the entire world now into the 21st century.
Who empowers a politicians to go to war, murdering and displacing people when he doesn't have the right? God.
The modern 21st century Politicians purposely avoid saying Jesus or God in their wars and their crimes because they would be condemned by Jesus or God.
They say the names in neutral ways as like "God bless America" but not as in saying = Jesus or God wants us to bomb Syria and Afghanistan and Iraq and etc.
I even remember President Bush declaring the "crusades" against the Muslims and Bush had to shut that up as it backfired into his face.
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Re: > Would anyone have listened to Jesus
Post #40I do not like to nit-pick but that is not a complete question.Willum wrote: So, you think.
Everyone has an opinion, can you back it up?
If you want back up to an opinion then we do not need to back up an opinion because it is an opinion.
If you mean to back up that no politician uses Jesus or God for their warmongering and atrocities then it is impossible to prove a negative, as like it is not here and it is not there so it does not happen, and thereby I can not show what does not exist.
As to President Bush declaring the "crusades" then that is easy to find with any internet search.
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