They saw God the Son (Exodus 24:10-11)

[Faber]

Exodus 24:10-11
(10) and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
(11) Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NASB)

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (NASB)


Since they "saw God" (Exodus 24:10-11) but it wasn't the Father (John 6:46) to whom then does "God" refer to?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 7 by marco]

QUESTION: Does the bible speak of God exposing his naked buttocks?

Many a juvenile schoolboy has sniggered at the bible passage in Exodus 33:23 which, refering to God's response to Moses to see him (YHWH) reads in the King James Version "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts" (Other bible refer to God's "back"). So what did Moses actually see? Did God "moon"* Moses?

*According to Wikipedia: "Mooning is the act of displaying one's bare buttocks by removing clothing, e.g., by lowering the backside of one's trousers and underpants, usually bending over, whether also exposing the genitals or not. Mooning is used in the English-speaking world to express protest, scorn, disrespect, or provocation, or can be done for shock value, fun, or as form of exhibitionism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooning

GOD IS NOT PHYSICAL AND IS INVISIBLE TO HUMANS

Unlike many pagan gods who are spoken of as decending to earth in human (or animal) form from time to time, the Yaweh (Jehovah) the God of the bible is never depicted as appearing in human form. In fact the bible explicitly states that no human has seen him at any time. Jehovah specifically declared to the Israelites "You did not see any form on the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb" and warned them against any attempts to represent his form with any carved (graven) images. The bible is quite clear on this, it states catagorically "God is a spirit" and that no one has seen God at any time (compare John 4:24; John 1:18). Spirits do not have physical bodies and so God does not literally have a face, a back (or a backside), he has a spirit body that can not be seen by humans. So no, YHWH did not expose any part of his body to Moses since he doesn't have a physical body to expose and choses never to take on a phyical form.

NOTE: The bible often uses metaphors, describing God as having "eyes", "hands" "arms" "feet" etc) these figures of speech they help us understand his nature and capacities. Scholars call such terms anthropomorphic (see further reading below)
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102008370

- As a point of interest the work for "buttocks" in Hebrew is shethah (Strongs #8357) and is not the word used in Exodus 33:23 which is achowr, so the metaphor did not refer to an exposed "backside" or genitals

QUESTION: If Moses didn't literally see any part of God's body, what did he see?

A closer look at what the account actually says is in order.

18 Then he [Moses] said: “Please show me your glory.� 19 But he [YHWH] said: “... Here is a place near me. Station yourself on the rock. 22 When my glory is passing by"

So while Jehovah did not say he will descend from his abode in Heaven and literally pass by he did say he would let some of his "glory" be seen. We get a clue as to what that might have appeared like because chapter 34 of the same book (Exodus) explains that after the experience Moses' own face "emitted rays" so it seems Moses face shone in some way. Notice Paul's wording, when refering to the incident he said explains "that the sons of Israel could not gaze at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face" .

So it seems that when Exodus 33:24 refers to moses seeing Jehovah's "back" or "back parts" (KJV) he saw the remnants of a manifestation of God's glory in the form of some kind of display of light. If a human cannot directly look at the sun, a light form that is many millions of miles away and a tiny flicker in the relation to the powerful light sources in the physical universe, we can only imagine what would happen to a human if he were subject the the full force of the CREATOR of the billions of galaxies in the universe (compare Psalms 36:9b). The Pulpit Commentary puts it this way: "After the Divine Presence had passed by, Moses was to be permitted to look out, and would see so much of the Divine glory as he would be able to bear"
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/33-23.htm

CONCLUSION: Archaic language (and schoolboy amusement) and Michelangelo aside, Exodus 33:23 does not support the notion of Moses literally seeing any part of the Amighty's spirit "body". Rather in anthropomorphic terms YHWH uses a metaphor to communicate that Moses will be permitted to see some of God's "glory" in some kind of physical manifestation of light and power.

JW



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JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ARTWORK , APPEARANCE OF JESUS and ...DEPICTIONS OF YHWH

[Prince]

It is those who eat and drink that can see God. These are those who come from God and they make up the Son of God who is Israel, the servant of God.

If this sounds crazy it is only because you are not God's son who serves Him and keeps His word.

I know Him and I keep His word. I am from above.

The one who comes from above is above all. He who is of the world thinks like the world and speaks in a worldly way. He who comes from heaven testifies to what He has seen and heard but no one believes him. If anyone does believe he renders the truth of God for the one who is sent by God he speaks the words of God. Whoever believes in the Son possesses eternal life but whoever does not believe must shall not see life but must endure the wrath of God.

No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born from above.

Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 1 by Faber]

They saw God the Son

There is no such God referred to anywhere in scripture.

Instead, it posits God the Father, one God, and His Son, the Son of God.

[brianbbs67]

Here's the JPS Tanakh: 9: Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy elders of Isreal ascended; 10: and they saw the God of Isreal: under His feet there was the likeness of a pavement s sapphire, like the very sky for purity. 11: Yet He did not raise His hand against the Leaders(b) of the Israelites; they beheld God and they ate and drank.

(b) Meaning of Hebrew 'asilim uncertain(this uncertain footnote occurs on nearly every page)

So, it seems clear they saw Him, and they were those who ate and drank. They are assigned the special term 'asilim.

[brianbbs67]

Also, just to add to the discussion, the word angel(malak) in hebrew means messenger. They are used interchangeably. Circumstances dictate whether divine or not.

[Claire Evans]

Exodus 24:10-11
(10) and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
(11) Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NASB)

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (NASB)


Since they "saw God" (Exodus 24:10-11) but it wasn't the Father (John 6:46) to whom then does "God" refer to?

Yahweh, who was a Canaanite deity. He was a physical being who conversed with the Israelites. He is not the Father. Yahweh's nature is contrary to Jesus'.

[brianbbs67]

Exodus 24:10-11
(10) and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself.
(11) Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. (NASB)

John 6:46
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. (NASB)


Since they "saw God" (Exodus 24:10-11) but it wasn't the Father (John 6:46) to whom then does "God" refer to?

Yahweh, who was a Canaanite deity. He was a physical being who conversed with the Israelites. He is not the Father. Yahweh's nature is contrary to Jesus'.

Explain further.....

[JehovahsWitness]

Yahweh, who was a Canaanite deity. He was a physical being who conversed with the Israelites. He is not the Father. Yahweh's nature is contrary to Jesus'.

So, did Jesus' father have a name? I ask because of the prayer "Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name" I was just wondering if He has one.

[tigger2]

Yahweh, who was a Canaanite deity. He was a physical being who conversed with the Israelites. He is not the Father. Yahweh's nature is contrary to Jesus'.

So, did Jesus' father have a name? I ask because of the prayer "Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name" I was just wondering if He has one.

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth. - Ps. 83:18, KJV.

But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - Isaiah 64:8, ASV.

[William]

[Replying to post 7 by marco]

"Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. " Exodus 33:20-23

I believe that in modern times this would be termed "mooning." A parallel passage from Greek mythology has Zeus appear reluctantly to Semele, who immediately perishes. So the concept of seeing God and dying may have been widespread.

I had to chuckle at this. Not because of the 'mooning' bit so much as because ordinarily you tend to post specific to accuracy, but in light of the passage, you are assuming this GOD was naked...but what in the story makes you think that is the case?