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So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?Luke 16:
6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
i see.showme wrote:Well it would be helpful if you understood (Daniel 12:10) who the beast and his two horns like a lamb were. Once that is established, things become clear. The beast with two horns like a lamb was the "another" of Daniel 7:25, and was Constantine, who subdued 3 kings to consolidate Rome under his rule. He instituted the Roman church at his convened Council of Nicaea, where he intended to "make alterations in the times and in law". He changed the law of one God into 3 gods, and per his decree of 321 AD changed the day of rest from the Sabbath to the day of the sun, in honor of his sun god, Sol Invictus. Constantine's Roman church, was a daughter of Babylon, and followed the pagan gods under different names. Constantine's church was built on Peter and Paul. Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, and Paul was the "staff " "Favor", and both were take to "pasture the flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which would be the "Christian" church, and its pursuit of the false prophet's false gospel of grace/cross. The sign being the sign given by Sol Invictus at the battle of Milvian bridge in 312 AD, which was the sign of the cross, by which Constantine was to go out and conquer the world under that sign. While Constantine's man Friday, Eusebuis, rewrote that story, the story remains written in the coin of Rome, whereas Sol Invictus image was minted on the Roman coins of 313 AD.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 410 by showme]
They do?Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).
How come?
What is it that makes that "false gospel" false?the false prophet's false gospel of grace/cross.
I certainly “dwell on the earth�, and I was certainly “deceived�. But then again, I “came out of her� (Revelation 18:4), and I have escaped from the “daughter of Zion� (Zechariah 2:7). I was raised in the belly of the beast, for I was raised a Roman Catholic, and yet here I am, free and clear. The Catholic church really didn’t deceive me, because I always knew they were spitting in the wind. On the other hand, I was given a bible by an Assembly of God follower, and began reading it with the presumption that it was as stated, the “Word of God�, but after reading it several times, I was quickly disabused of that idea. The NT is simply a mix of the tare seed and the good seed, planted in the same field (Revelation 13). If one assumes it is all good, then they are going to be in for a big surprise.JehovahsWitness wrote:What do you think it means by "dwell on the earth" surely not simply, those humans that live on planet earth (since I presume YOU also are a human currenty living planet earth). It must mean something else in your opinion, do you feel in a position to say what "those who dwell on the earth" means?showme wrote: Those with the mark of the beast include "those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14), so you certainly are not alone.
Care to explain yourself?
JW
- What exactly do you believe the mark of the beast and why do you say Jehovah's Witnesses have it?showme wrote: Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).
Thanks for your explanation of how JWs see these matters.onewithhim wrote:(I explained all this previously, yet I get criticized for saying that people don't read the posts.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 405 by onewithhim]
"The resurrected ones".We are talking, after all is said and done, about the real life---the life that will never end.
The resurrected ones that find themselves alive during the Millennium will not have achieved ETERNAL LIFE until the end of the Millennium when Satan is let out to try and draw people after him for the last time, and those that resist him will THEN be given ETERNAL LIFE. They didn't have it before they were tested the final time.
Who are these people? Will they perhaps include you? Me?
"that find themselves alive". Are these "the rest of the dead"?Jehovah'sWitness also posted many links to answer these questions.) Anyway, your questions are good, and have been the subject of many discussions and presentations from Kingdom proclaimers.
There are 2 resurrections, technically. We see this because of mentions like Revelation 20:6. The first resurrection involves the anointed chosen ones (144,000) that will rule with Christ in his government. The second resurrection is everyone else, all the billions of people who will live on the earth and have the hope of living here forever. If you or I were to die, we would be among those who experience the 2nd resurrection, back on to the earth.
So:
1.) First Resurrection.....144,000 rulers in Christ's government, given immortality before Armageddon. They will have "come to life" at that time. They will be in the position to live forever.
2.) Second Resurrection.....Billions who will stand up again on the earth, but who must wait until after the final test at the end of the thousand years before being eligible for everlasting life. That is why the scripture says that they "come to life" after the thousand years. They choose to obey God rather than go with Satan. (Rev.20:7,8) Then they receive the gift of on-going, eternal life. So their "coming to life" will be a thousand years after the 144,000 come to life.
No one goes to "heaven". The "kingdom of heaven" is "at hand" (Matthew 3:2), in the here and now. The "kingdom of God" is when "David" will rule as "king" over the "sticks" of "Judah" and "Israel", on the "land I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:15-28).JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 421 by showme]
I'm glad for you. Now would you care to explain what you mean by the following since your paragraph on the Coucil of Nicea and the Roman Catholic church does NOT do so.
- What exactly do you believe the mark of the beast and why do you say Jehovah's Witnesses have it?showme wrote: Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).
- Does your statement mean that no Jehovah's Witness can go to heaven?
Sad to say, but JWs are the only religious organization of people who DON'T have the mark of the beast, though I'm sure there are some individuals who refuse to be marked by it as well. (But you don't understand what the mark of the beast is; it would be good to inform yourself about that.) All we can do is warn people about Armageddon and Satan's schemes. It's up to you to accept the truth and "get out of her".....get out of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.showme wrote:You have some serious problems with your scenario. The 144,000 are marked to protect them from the affects of opening up the bottomless pit. (Revelation 7:3 & 9:3-4). Those who rule with “Christ� are those who were “beheaded�, etc. The 144,000 lives are protected through the judgment day, and therefore are not listed among those who have been “beheaded�. (Revelation 20:4) Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).onewithhim wrote:(I explained all this previously, yet I get criticized for saying that people don't read the posts.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 405 by onewithhim]
"The resurrected ones".We are talking, after all is said and done, about the real life---the life that will never end.
The resurrected ones that find themselves alive during the Millennium will not have achieved ETERNAL LIFE until the end of the Millennium when Satan is let out to try and draw people after him for the last time, and those that resist him will THEN be given ETERNAL LIFE. They didn't have it before they were tested the final time.
Who are these people? Will they perhaps include you? Me?
"that find themselves alive". Are these "the rest of the dead"?
There are 2 resurrections, technically. We see this because of mentions like Revelation 20:6. The first resurrection involves the anointed chosen ones (144,000) that will rule with Christ in his government. The second resurrection is everyone else, all the billions of people who will live on the earth and have the hope of living here forever. If you or I were to die, we would be among those who experience the 2nd resurrection, back on to the earth.
So:
1.) First Resurrection.....144,000 rulers in Christ's government, given immortality before Armageddon. They will have "come to life" at that time. They will be in the position to live forever.
2.) Second Resurrection.....Billions who will stand up again on the earth, but who must wait until after the final test at the end of the thousand years before being eligible for everlasting life. That is why the scripture says that they "come to life" after the thousand years. They choose to obey God rather than go with Satan. (Rev.20:7,8) Then they receive the gift of on-going, eternal life. So their "coming to life" will be a thousand years after the 144,000 come to life.
I'm having difficulty following your scriptural references. You must be off somehow. What you are referring to doesn't match up with the verses.showme wrote:Well it would be helpful if you understood (Daniel 12:10) who the beast and his two horns like a lamb were. Once that is established, things become clear. The beast with two horns like a lamb was the "another" of Daniel 7:25, and was Constantine, who subdued 3 kings to consolidate Rome under his rule. He instituted the Roman church at his convened Council of Nicaea, where he intended to "make alterations in the times and in law". He changed the law of one God into 3 gods, and per his decree of 321 AD changed the day of rest from the Sabbath to the day of the sun, in honor of his sun god, Sol Invictus. Constantine's Roman church, was a daughter of Babylon, and followed the pagan gods under different names. Constantine's church was built on Peter and Paul. Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:17, and Paul was the "staff " "Favor", and both were take to "pasture the flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which would be the "Christian" church, and its pursuit of the false prophet's false gospel of grace/cross. The sign being the sign given by Sol Invictus at the battle of Milvian bridge in 312 AD, which was the sign of the cross, by which Constantine was to go out and conquer the world under that sign. While Constantine's man Friday, Eusebuis, rewrote that story, the story remains written in the coin of Rome, whereas Sol Invictus image was minted on the Roman coins of 313 AD.Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 410 by showme]
They do?Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).
How come?
Are you suggesting I worship Satan or is the "serpent" someone else? How do you establish that Jehovah's Witnesses worship Satan but you don't?showme wrote:JWs, they worship the serpent, because they worship the beast who was given the authority of the beast. The 7th head of that beast was Constantine, who was told by the dragon, Sol Invictus, to conquer under the sign of the cross.
Can you tell me what this "beast" is and how one worships it? How do you know you are not also worshipping "the beast"?showme wrote: they worship the beast who was given the authority of the beast.
We do indeed preach the kingdom, but why do you suggest we miss "the narrow way" what does this refer to and how are you sure you too haven't missed it?showme wrote:
The JWs preach the kingdom of God, which is with respect to the millennium, and miss entirely the "narrow" "way" which leads to life in the now. (Matthew 7:14)
