Eternal Conscious Torment

[The Tanager]

As of right now I would consider myself an Annihilationist in regards to my view of Hell. I'm not looking to try to push Annihilationism or get into a debate between the various views. I want to look more deeply into the issues around what Hell is with other minds and I would love to hear from those who believe in the eternal conscious torment view, to the various reasons you believe it makes sense within Christianity. I'm looking to challenge my view and I was hoping you all could help me out.

[Soar]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 096#902096] Seriously there are many names of God in the Bible not just jehovah.

Why did you use the word "just" ? In the English language when you modify a noun with "just" it indicates that it does in fact belong to a group but that said group also includes other elements. So if man was living in his car you could say "It isn't just a car ....it's his home" by saying "just" you are admitting it is indeed a car but there is more to it. So again why did you say "God's name isn't just Jehovah" because as it stands your sentence is saying God's name is indeed Jehovah (While implying there are also other names).

Could you explain why you said "just"? Or was it in error?

Not applying there are other names for God there is other names for God not just jehovah. God has many names not just jehovah. Elohim was the first "name" in the Bible not jehovah.


The name jehovah is first introduced in Genesis, chapter two notice Elohim was the name in Genesis 1. You will see here two names together: LORD God. This means "jehovah-Elohim." There is a very good reason why these two names should be linked.

Genesis 1
1In the beginning God (Elohim not jehovah) created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God (Elohim not jehovah)moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God (Elohim not jehovah)said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God (Elohim not jehovah)called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God (Elohim not jehovah)said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God (Elohim not jehovah)made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God (Elohim not jehovah) called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God (Elohim not jehovah)said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God (Elohim not jehovah)called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God (Elohim not jehovah) said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
etc. (Elohim not jehovah)

[Soar]

(Elohim not jehovah) is an error in the JW bible

[Soar]

The whole JW bible started with the forth word of their bible is error based on bias not the original language. The WHOLE JW bible is corrupted in this bias insertion not interpretation. This makes the Whole JW system based on a lie. How can a person debate this human bias? It is like talking to a brick wall.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 345 by Soar]

So you believe that JEHOVAH is one of God's names? So why did you say

any insertion of the word jehovah is error.

Is it an error to call God by "one of his names"?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

The word hell is an error it is a mistranslation, Easter should be Passover another error. Words like eternal, everlasting, forever and ever should be ages, or age.

Are these not rather errors of misinterpretation as being driven by the theology instead of being used to build a theology??

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 338 by ttruscott]

He is evident in His creation be it the stars in the heaven or the multiple things God created. God is one and everyone of His creation is singular. In Jer. 33:22 scripture declares "the host of heaven CANNOT BE NUMBERED." Galileo's invention of the telescope, such a statement was considered to be either false or at least a gross exaggeration.


Astronomers estimate that their number is equal to
1,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000 or one sextillion.

Is this an uncountable number? But as far as man can see the universe stretches on and on into infinity- he has never discovered its outer perimeter. We therefore conclude that the term "uncountable" is indeed a very appropriate description of the number of stars in the universe. Yet in Ps. 147:4 we read that "GOD telleth the number of the stars; HE calleth them all by their names." God is not only able to number the stars- these billions of billions of blazing suns- but He calls each of them by name--He has ascribed a nature, a power, a purpose to each!

What a GOD! Psalm 19, "The heavens declare the glory of God." and the firmament sheweth his handiwork.

During those star-studded nights above the plains of Judea, David looked into the heavens and there beheld the vast glittering band of stars making up our Milky Way. He was awed and knew there had to be boundless power, intelligence, and purpose behind it all He was transfixed. He so identified with that purpose that it became his passion. Everywhere he looked he could see the stamp of the divine Creator. He exclaimed in words of inspiration that sprang up from within his spirit: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world (Ps. 19:1-4).

" A free translation goes like this: "The heavens continually rehearse the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork. Day unto day pours forth, tells forth, and prophesies, and night unto night shows, imparts an

Cool stuff but it does NOT reply to my post #338 as you infer...

[ttruscott]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 096#902096] Seriously there are many names of God in the Bible not just jehovah.

Why did you use the word "just" ? In the English language when you modify a noun with "just" it indicates that it does in fact belong to a group but that said group also includes other elements. So if man was living in his car you could say "It isn't just a car ....it's his home" by saying "just" you are admitting it is indeed a car but there is more to it. So again why did you say "God's name isn't just Jehovah" because as it stands your sentence is saying God's name is indeed Jehovah (While implying there are also other names).

Could you explain why you said "just"? Or was it in error?

Not applying there are other names for God ....

Could you explain this please??

[Soar]

[Replying to ttruscott]

All the above

[Soar]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 096#902096] Seriously there are many names of God in the Bible not just jehovah.

Why did you use the word "just" ? In the English language when you modify a noun with "just" it indicates that it does in fact belong to a group but that said group also includes other elements. So if man was living in his car you could say "It isn't just a car ....it's his home" by saying "just" you are admitting it is indeed a car but there is more to it. So again why did you say "God's name isn't just Jehovah" because as it stands your sentence is saying God's name is indeed Jehovah (While implying there are also other names).

Could you explain why you said "just"? Or was it in error?

Not applying there are other names for God ....

Could you explain this please??

I am not going to get into a name/nature debate with a JW because it is a merry go round. Yes there are many names/natures of God it is said over two hundred. A name and a nature are the same thing. To name your religion after one bias name/nature and then to ignore all the other name/natures is just bias and not worth my time.

A nature is the same as a name or character as well as an authority. God has many names, nature or characters; unless you are a JW, then he has only one nature, jehovah which limits God to one name/nature/character ehich makes God a one sided God and limits how we perceive who He is.

Name: Noun. onoma ^3686^ is used (I) in general of the "name" by which a person or thing is," "the title and dignity" of the Lord, as in <Eph. 1:21> and <Heb. 1:4>; (II) for all that a "name" implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the "name" covers: (a) of the "Name" of God as expressing His attributes.

In Bible times names were chosen with great care quite often were given to show prophesy to what will become of that person. Or under divine inspiration so that the names actually revealed the nature, character, attributes, and destiny of the person, and thus carried a message to all who spoke or used that name. I always love the name Ichabod meaning the glory has departed; he was the high priest who lost the ark to the philistines. Much like the religious realm to day especially JW .

Mankind usually has one name; God has many names, because He is showing us His true manifold natures. Did you know that one of these names was feminine? EL SHADDAI (GOD ALMIGHTY) El", often translated "God", primarily means "might" or "power." David speaks His Name: "It is El that girdeth me with strength." The revelation of the name "Shaddai" is different. It also expresses power, but it is not the power of violence, but of all-bountifulness. "Shaddai" means "Breasted", a word formed from the Hebrew word "Shad" meaning "the breast", more specifically, "a womans breast". Thus "Shaddai"means "The Pourer or Shedder forth" of blessings both natural and spiritual. This third name shows us His nature as One whose self-sacrificing love gives and pours itself out for others.

Names of God

Jesus is called many names. nature: the Lamb of God, Bright and Morning Star, Son of God, rock, door, Mighty God, Everlasting Father (Isa. 9:6) etc.

ELOHIM: (GOD) Ex.33:34


YAHVAH, YAHVAH-EL of compassion and favor, Slow to anger & abundant in loving kindness & faithfulness: keeping loving kindness to a thousand generations, forgetting iniquity and transgression and sin, though leave not utterly unpunished. Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon sons sons, unto a third & forth generation. Ex. 34: Rotherham

God is not only teaching His Word but also His Nature.

Jehovah T Sidkinu, The LORD OUR Righteousness (Jer. 23:6)
Jehovah M Kaddesh, The Lord Who Sanctifies (Lev. 20:7)
Jehovah Shalom, The Lord our peace (Judges 6:24)
Jehovah Shammah, The Lord our ever Present God (Ezek. 48:35)
Jehovah Rapha, The Lord our Healer (Ezek. 15:26)
Jehovah Jireh, The Lord our provider (Gen. 22:14)
Jehovah Nissi, The Lord our Victory (Ex. 17:15)
Jehovah Rohi, The Lord our Shepherd (Ps. 23:1)
Jehovah Tsur, The Lord our Strength (Ps. 19:14)


God at the first did visit the nations, to take out of them A PEOPLE FOR HIS NAME." (Acts 15:14). And the call goes forth, "Bring My sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him for My glory." (Isaiah 43:6-7).

No wonder we read, "Therefore the world knows us not, because it knew Him not." Obviously, if they do not know Him, neither will they know anyone called by His name. And Jesus said, "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." (John 17:16). The more you lose your world-identity, and take on the new creation identity in Christ, the less you fit into this world. Your citizenship is in another realm-- the heavenly, and this is a realm that is utterly foreign to the world. Indeed, it is quite foreign to a lot of religious realms too, for they actually know Him not.

"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,... and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you." (Matt. 7:22-23). Know-- the Greek word is "ginosko" meaning: to know by experience. To have an intimate understanding and knowledge of another, based upon experience with them. When you have a deep communion with one, sharing the secrets of their heart, you come to know the nature and character of a person. This is far more than merely sharing surface opinions, like "it's a nice day," or, "looks like it might rain," "let's go for a cup of coffee and chat a bit." That's not coming to KNOW a person. But when you walk with them through deep trials, share their grief and joy, and become vulnerable because you are openly exposing your inner self to them-- then you get to really know someone.

[Soar]

The way i see the JW obsession withe the name of jehovah it is an idol. They worship not God but the only THE name (the only name they claim) of God. No other name is there in Bible because of the reason it is an idol worship.

I believe in revelation not idols and that means we should always be seeking for new Revelation but this is impossible if you foundation the idol is all you have to work with.. What revelation is there when your foundation is an idol. There whole religion is based on the idol NAME of jehovah. You could change the name to Baal, or what ever and little has change because when you insert words that are not based on the Hebrew and Greek interpreting the text by way of only your bias you make the Word of God of no effect by your bias.