God, Evil and Freewill

[liamconnor]

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't? Let's be specific to avoid the abstract: a world in which Liam and Zzyx could cheat, steal, murder, lie; yet at the same time couldn't?

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 1 by liamconnor]

You're going to have to explain yourself more, because at face value you seem to be implying God can do the logically impossible.

[Bust Nak]

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't? Let's be specific to avoid the abstract: a world in which Liam and Zzyx could cheat, steal, murder, lie; yet at the same time couldn't?

"Could" is the past tense of "can." What does can but couldn't mean? That sounds like a contradiction.

Did you mean to ask if a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God can create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time wouldn't? If so then clearly yes, God can create that.

[Kenisaw]

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't? Let's be specific to avoid the abstract: a world in which Liam and Zzyx could cheat, steal, murder, lie; yet at the same time couldn't?

Not sure how a benevolent god creates a world with non-benevolent attributes in it. But since it is omnipotent, it should be able to contradict itself and create such a world. An all powerful god should be able to do anything, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff. That's the beauty of Omni everything beings, they can do everything including the things they can't do.

Throw logic and reason out the window and then it just makes sense apparently...

[wiploc]

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't? Let's be specific to avoid the abstract: a world in which Liam and Zzyx could cheat, steal, murder, lie; yet at the same time couldn't?

A true-omnipotent god could do anything, including violate logic. Therefore, there is no point in trying to have logical discussions about true-omnipotent gods. Logic is pointless and unreliable if true-omnipotence exists.

Since discussing true-omnipotent gods is pointless, we usually discuss punk-omnipotent gods. Punk-omnipotent gods can do anything except violate logic. When we use the terms "omnipotent," and "all powerful," we are almost always meaning punk omnipotence.

Therefore, no, an omnipotent god cannot make something both true and false.

But he could create a world in which we have the power to cheat, steal, murder, and lie (csml), but in which we choose not to do not do so.

According to Plantinga, god, at the beginning, knew everything that would ever happen in all possible worlds, and he had the power to create any of those possible worlds that wouldn't become contradictory by his creating them. (He couldn't create worlds that aren't made by gods.)

There are possible worlds in which we have the power to csml but in which we don't do those things. Those worlds are not impossible, therefore they are possible. There is no contradiction in not doing something that we have the ability to do. In Heaven, presumably, people can csml, but they choose not to. No contradiction there.

If god wanted us to have free will, but didn't want us to csml, then he would have created a world in which use our free will by choosing not to csml.

So, while god can't have us both able and unable to csml, he could have made it so we are able to csml but choose not to.

[Overcomer]

liamconnor wrote:

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't?

Why are you asking this question? Are you being illogical by breaking the Law of Non-Contradiction in an attempt to prove that God isn't logical? Or are you being illogical in an attempt to prove there is no God at all? Either way, how does your being illogical prove anything except that you're being illogical?

[imhereforyou]

Should a Benevolent, Omniscient, Omnipotent God be able to create a world where you and I could cheat, steal, murder, lie; and yet at the same time couldn't? Let's be specific to avoid the abstract: a world in which Liam and Zzyx could cheat, steal, murder, lie; yet at the same time couldn't?

This god should be able to do whatever he wants. If he created everything, this includes rules, laws, regulations, logic, reason, common sense... so he could do what he wants. He could make a blue that's not blue while being red and yellow.
When we start attributing our rules, laws, regulations, logic, reason, common sense, etc to something we can't imagine on our best day, much less understand, we limit the limitless.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 1 by liamconnor]

You're going to have to explain yourself more, because at face value you seem to be implying God can do the logically impossible.

Yup - that is what some folk claim GOD should have done with us....