Is it really that easy to go to Heaven?

[Elijah John]

From another thread in response to this question:

Yes to the narrow gate, but how does one get through it?

In response, Tcg made this astute observation:

By joining the most popular religion in the world, it's the widest narrow gate known to mankind.

This is the verse from Jesus alluded to:

"For the gate is narrow, and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

-Have the millions of Evangelical Christians in the world who believe that Jesus died to "pay for" their sins, found the narrow gate and the hard road to life?

-What's so hard about believing that Jesus died to "pay for" your sins? Especially when millions are indoctrinated from childhood and by culture to believe just that?

-Is it really that easy? Simply to believe that Jesus died as a blood atonement for you in order to pave your way to Heaven? Or is something more, or something different needed to appropriate the Grace of God and get to Heaven?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Elijah John wrote:


If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

you replied

No, I have not made that claim nor will I be presenting my interpretation in this thread, I hope that is clear.

]

Why not?

I would like to see your presentation.

Because I don't feel like it at the moment. I may change my mind depending on who asks and what the circumstances of the thread are but for the moment my answer is no, I will not.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Tcg's interpretation that nominal Christians being a third of the worlds population would constitute being on the broad way...

I didn't state anything even remotely like this. You can either review what I did say and attempt to address that, or continue to argue against a straw man of your own creation.

It wasn't a "quote" (ie I wasn't claiming those were your actual words) but my take on the point you were making, if I misunderstood your point I apologise. Feel free to clarify what your point actually was.

JW

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Elijah John wrote:


If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

you replied

No, I have not made that claim nor will I be presenting my interpretation in this thread, I hope that is clear.

]

Why not?

I would like to see your presentation.

Because I don't feel like it at the moment. I may change my mind depending on who asks and what the circumstances of the thread are but for the moment my answer is no, I will not.

JW

Ok, fair enough.

[imhereforyou]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

In principle, it should be easy: believe and accept and follow. Religion seems to make it more difficult with all the rules, laws, do's and don't's and confusion people create.
In addition, much of what Christianity says to do goes against human nature and society (it's easier to hate than to love, for example; drinking alcohol/smoking/swearing/[whatever other vice you want to include] is sinful, etc). In that aspect, living the life is harder.
In reality, it's only as easy or hard as you make it.

[onewithhim]

From another thread in response to this question:

Yes to the narrow gate, but how does one get through it?

In response, Tcg made this astute observation:

By joining the most popular religion in the world, it's the widest narrow gate known to mankind.

This is the verse from Jesus alluded to:

"For the gate is narrow, and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

-Have the millions of Evangelical Christians in the world who believe that Jesus died to "pay for" their sins, found the narrow gate and the hard road to life?

-What's so hard about believing that Jesus died to "pay for" your sins? Especially when millions are indoctrinated from childhood and by culture to believe just that?

-Is it really that easy? Simply to believe that Jesus died as a blood atonement for you in order to pave your way to Heaven? Or is something more, or something different needed to appropriate the Grace of God and get to Heaven?

What "astute observation" did Tcg make? "The widest narrow gate known to mankind" is "the most popular religion?" None of that even makes sense. What does that mean?

Jesus said that the road is narrow that leads to life because it is not easy being a faithful God-loving Christian. Everyone who dedicates themselves to do God's will will be persecuted. (John 15:20) It's not easy always being honest, always being kind, giving of ourselves in the ministry. Most people do not want to have to always be following Christ's example. (I Peter 2:21) That is why Jesus said that most people are on the wide road---the easy road.

And why are we, once again, talking about going to heaven? Doesn't the Bible speak extensively about life on this earth in paradise conditions? That is what we who are on the narrow road are looking forward to.

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace....The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein FOREVER." (Psalm 37:9,11,29, KJV)


See how important it is to find the right religion? The meek shall inherit the earth, or they will not (everyone will go to heaven). Which view does the Bible teach? So the question might be asked: "Is it really that easy to get into Paradise [on Earth]?" Again the answer is no, not really. It takes a lot of effort and endurance.

"STRIVE to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Luke 13:24, NASB)

"The one who ENDURES to the end, he will be saved." (Matthew 24:13, NASB)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Somewhere in the scriptures it is noted that even demons know what Jesus did. I doubt simply a belief or acknowledgment of what he did is enough.

I think that is from the letter of James.

You believe that God is one, you do well. Even demons believe, and tremble.

But then again, James is the "faith without works is dead" guy.

That line of thinking seems more in harmony with Jesus than does the theology of Paul or Evangelicaqls who posit "sola fida".

James and Paul say one thing. Evangelicals say something else.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 25 by onewithhim]

I think what he's saying (and correct me, Tcg if I misunderstood) is that Trinitarian Christianity's salvation by belief alone, sola fida, cannot be the straight gate and the hard road to life which Jesus is referring to.

After all, how hard is it to beleive that "Jesus died to pay for one's sins"? Especially for the billions who have been brought up (indoctrinated) to believe this.

Is anyone saved at the moment they accept the message of Billy Graham (may he rest in peace) when attending one of his crusades? And if so, is that salvation irrevocable?

Maybe, but Jesus and even Paul seem to indicate there is a little more to salvation than simply "accepting Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior", i.e. believing the "right things".

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

Elijah John wrote:


If you're claiming that Jehovah's Witness are the "narrow gate and the hard road" which leads to life, and that other forms of Christianity constitute the "wide gate and the easy road" which lead to destruction, I don't think it's as simple as that, do you?

you replied

No, I have not made that claim nor will I be presenting my interpretation in this thread, I hope that is clear.

]

Why not?

I would like to see your presentation.

Because I don't feel like it at the moment. I may change my mind depending on who asks and what the circumstances of the thread are but for the moment my answer is no, I will not.


JW

What, not even a link to to the mother ship?

No interpretation offered, OK, but I see no comprehensible argument either.

I was engaging you here in good faith, assuming your purpose on this thread was straightforward, if a litte muddled.

It now seems clear to me that you are trolling, not debating, with your evasions.

Not exactly sure what your game is, but it is tiresome. I'm not playing anymore, because "I don't feel like it... ".

[Elijah John]

From another thread in response to this question:

Yes to the narrow gate, but how does one get through it?

In response, Tcg made this astute observation:

By joining the most popular religion in the world, it's the widest narrow gate known to mankind.

This is the verse from Jesus alluded to:

"For the gate is narrow, and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

-Have the millions of Evangelical Christians in the world who believe that Jesus died to "pay for" their sins, found the narrow gate and the hard road to life?

-What's so hard about believing that Jesus died to "pay for" your sins? Especially when millions are indoctrinated from childhood and by culture to believe just that?

-Is it really that easy? Simply to believe that Jesus died as a blood atonement for you in order to pave your way to Heaven? Or is something more, or something different needed to appropriate the Grace of God and get to Heaven?

What "astute observation" did Tcg make? "The widest narrow gate known to mankind" is "the most popular religion?" None of that even makes sense. What does that mean?

Jesus said that the road is narrow that leads to life because it is not easy being a faithful God-loving Christian. Everyone who dedicates themselves to do God's will will be persecuted. (John 15:20) It's not easy always being honest, always being kind, giving of ourselves in the ministry. Most people do not want to have to always be following Christ's example. (I Peter 2:21) That is why Jesus said that most people are on the wide road---the easy road.

And why are we, once again, talking about going to heaven? Doesn't the Bible speak extensively about life on this earth in paradise conditions? That is what we who are on the narrow road are looking forward to.

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace....The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein FOREVER." (Psalm 37:9,11,29, KJV)


See how important it is to find the right religion? The meek shall inherit the earth, or they will not (everyone will go to heaven). Which view does the Bible teach? So the question might be asked: "Is it really that easy to get into Paradise [on Earth]?" Again the answer is no, not really. It takes a lot of effort and endurance.

"STRIVE to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." (Luke 13:24, NASB)

"The one who ENDURES to the end, he will be saved." (Matthew 24:13, NASB)

Thank you for your thoughtful, well supported reply. You make a good case that it will be a renewed earth, though I also see reasons in the Bible where a case can be made for Heaven. (The parable of the rich man and Lazarus, for one). If I used the word "salavation" or as Jesus did "life" that would have coverd either interpretation, Heaven or Paradise on Earth.

[JehovahsWitness]

What, not even a link to to the mother ship?.

No, no links for the time being, I was under the impression you specifically requested not to be linked to information.

If I have misunderstood feel fee to clarify on that point and I will consider linking you to some reference works on the subject.

Regards,


JW