Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

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Elijah John
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Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�
There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Russell and all Jehovah's witnesses believe Jesus did indeed return but invisibly. The JW interpretatione of "return" is not literally come back to the earth but begin ruling as a king in heaven; so for Jehovah’s Witnesses (where Jesus prophecy is concerned) ...
return = become a king in heaven
Thus according to the JWs interpretation, Jesus did not utter "a failed prophecy". I suppose it comes down to how the words attributed to Jesus in the bible text are interpreted.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Are JWs the only group that believe Jesus is currently a king in heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p891129

Did Jehovah's Witnesses predict that Jesus' rule would be behind the scenes from before 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p891141

If God's kingdom has been in power since 1914 why have there been no significant changes on earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 72#p883772

Does the bible indicate here wold be any visible world events as evidence of invisibe heavenly ones?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 24#p891124

Can True Christians have false expectations ?
viewtopic.php?p=1061567#p1061567

Is infallibility a condition of "being lead by God's spirit"?
viewtopic.php?p=1045270#p1045270
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:33 pm, edited 7 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

jgh7

Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #3

Post by jgh7 »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

One interpretation is that it was referring to the transfiguration which occurs right after this in all the synoptics. By seeing Jesus transfigured, the apostles Peter, James, and John saw a preview of His coming glory. I got this explanation from here: http://answersfromthebook.net/what-is-t ... thew-1628/

I have also thought that it could be referring to Revelations where John saw the events of the coming of Jesus. But that is my own idea off the top of my head.
Elijah John wrote: How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?
Matthew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If Jesus states no one knows the day or hour of the return except the Father, then it makes little sense that he would predict it in the first place. So I think you are misinterpreting something.

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Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #4

Post by DPMartin »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
KJV
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.


read the 14th chapter of Zechariah its a little more explicit on the "day of the Lord"

there are a few other prophets that speak on this day, which is the day the Lord Jesus returns. when that will happen is a problem for those who would find themselves on the unfortunate side of His coming.

I think its Ezekiel that also speaks of this day and it sounds like a nuclear holocaust. reason for saying that is there is a nuclear biolistic arsenal in the Mount of Olives or at least it is believed so, and when the Lord blows that mountain in the manor described in scripture, then the rest of Israel's enemies will respond as though its a nuclear attack. and you can bet they don't have someone at a button grieving over it like the movies portray. its would take an automatic response via satellite and computers to give any chance of knocking down an incoming missal. no humans involved. it will just happen.


you can see today how the world can easily be taken in to becoming Israel's enemy. the UN shows just how corruptible these nations are. so it looks close but no one knows what hour He shall come.

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Post #5

Post by Overcomer »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Russell and all Jehovah's witnesses believe Jesus did indeed return but invisibly
Here's what the Bible says about Christ's Second Coming:

Matthew 24:27-31 – 27 “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 “Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it’s light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son Of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matthew 26:64 – 64 “You have said so,� Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.“

Acts 1:9-11 – 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,� they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.“

Revelation 1:7 – 7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,� and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him�; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.� So shall it be! Amen.


So how can anybody say Jesus has returned invisibly? These verses state that he will be seen.

Let's face it. The prophecy about Christ returning in 1914 didn't happen so Jehovah's Witnesses had to come up with some kind of explanation or admit they were wrong. And the Bible says that we will know a false prophet by the simple fact that his prophecies don't materialize (See Deut. 18:20-22). So they came up with the "invisible" theory. But it flies in the face of what the Bible says about Christ's return.

Elijah John wrote:
For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?
Jesus wasn't wrong. The answer lies in one's interpretation of the word "generation". Theologians suggest three possibilities:

1. Some people think that "this generation" refers to the nation of Israel. They say this on the basis that the Greek word (γενεα), translated as "generation", can also mean "nation". Therefore, Jesus is saying that the Jewish people will not pass away until all of these end time events take place.

I believe this is unlikely because the word is rarely translated as that so why assume that's what it means here?

2. Some people think there is a double fulfillment to this prophecy. They think it was partially fulfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. and that the remainder has yet to be fulfilled.

It's true that many prophecies in the Bible have double fulfillments, including the one found Isaiah 61:1,2 which speaks of the acceptable year of the Lord (fulfilled with his first advent) and the day of vengeance of our God (will be fulfilled with his second coming).

See here for more:

https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/grac ... 3-2_13.pdf

3. "This generation" refers to the end-time generation, that is, the generation living at the end of the age when the prophecies in the Book of Revelation are fulfilled.

This seems entirely plausible to me.

We have yet to see the fulfillment of this prophecy, but it will indeed come -- perhaps in my lifetime, perhaps not. But it will happen. All of the prophecies regarding Christ's first coming were fulfilled. Therefore, there is no reason to believe that all of the ones regarding his second coming won't be fulfilled.

See here:

http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org ... ecies.html

And here:

https://bible.org/seriespage/66-second- ... ke-2125-36

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Post #6

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote:
Here's what the Bible says about Christ's Second Coming:

Matthew 24:30 “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son Of Man coming


Yes, in the passage above Jesus was refering to his second "coming" (Greek ekomai) *I* wasn't talking about that, I was refering to Jesus "return" (parousia). Were you aware the bible speaks of these two different things, using two different words to describe two different series of events?

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Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote:Acts 1:9-11 – 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....“
We know Jesus disciples saw him leave the ground but did the disciples see Jesus go into heaven? If not what can we deduce about his "return" (parousia)
Overcomer wrote:Acts 1:9 “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.“


What way or manner did they see him go into heaven literally or with their eyes of faith?


Overcomer wrote:Acts 1:9-11 – 9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....“









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Romans 14:8

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Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote:Revelation 1:7 – 7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,� and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him�; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.� So shall it be! Amen.[/i]
Those who literally pierced Jesus are of course long dead, this scripture (which is in the book of Revelation, known to be highly symbolic) is speaking symbolically, not literally.




Will every eye literally see Jesus one day?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 750#874750


FURTHER READING The Book of Revelation—What Does it Mean?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... evelation/
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Romans 14:8

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Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Overcomer wrote:The prophecy about Christ returning in 1914 didn't happen so Jehovah's Witnesses had to come up with some kind of explanation or admit they were wrong.
How can you PROVE it didn't happen if it was an event in the spiritual realm?
Overcomer wrote:The prophecy about Christ returning in 1914 didn't happen so Jehovah's Witnesses had to come up with some kind of explanation or admit they were wrong.
Jehovah's Witnesses were speaking about Christ's INVISIBLE return many decades before 1914. So the statement that they came up with the theory after 1914 is demonstratably false.


Did Jehovah's Witnesses promote the idea of an "invisible" return before or after 1914?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 141#891141



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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Many failed predictions of Jesus return..

Post #10

Post by Tart »

Elijah John wrote: Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV)
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�
There have been many failed predictions of the "2nd coming of Christ". Most notably, Charles Taze Russell who predicted Jesus would return in 1914. When he didn't return, the prediction was revised to mean an "invisible return".

For debate, in light of the quoted passage from Matthew, was Jesus the first person to mistakenly predict his return?

How is Jesus prediction different from any of the others who have mistakenly predicted the time of his return?
How sure are we that this passage refers to Jesus return, and not His Transfiguration on the Mount? After all, it was in the very next chapter...

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