Was there more than one Messiah?

[polonius]

Jesus never actually claimed himself that we was the Messiah although he did not correct others who said he was. In Jewish belief, the Messiah was to descend from David and sit on his throne as king of the Jews.

It was this that really got Jesus crucified. Claiming that one was king of the Jews was insurrection punishable by crucifixion.

Did any other Jews in Jesus's time claim to be king of the Jews? If so, what happened to them?

[puddleglum]

In Jewish belief, the Messiah was to descend from David and sit on his throne as king of the Jews.

They were correct in this belief. This is exactly what will happen when Jesus returns.

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.�

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.
Revelation 19:11-21 ESV

What they overlooked is that before he does this he had to come to earth to die to atone for sins. Isaiah 53 describes this.

[dio9]

[Replying to polonius.advice]

The Jewish messiah (as I understand it) was/is a real world political ruler/king. There were several in that roman dominated age.
The Christianization/spiritualization of this is somewhat different , Christ's kingdom, theology holds , is not of this world.
Christianity holds there is no need for another but paradoxically holds Christ must come to finish the mission of the messiah.
So yes there must be more than one appearance of the messiah to fulfill the mission spiritually fulfilled by Jesus.
Does the second coming realize a physical political dominion as the original Jewish expectation held.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus never actually claimed himself that we was the Messiah although he did not correct others who said he was.

JOHN 4: 25
The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.� Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.�

How would you summarize what Jesus did in this passage? (I'm not asking what he did not do, I'm asking you what, if anything, he was doing by uttering the response above)





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Did Jesus fulfill the Messianic promises?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 204#851204

[polonius]

puddleglum posted:

They were correct in this belief. This is exactly what will happen when Jesus returns.
What they overlooked is that before he does this he had to come to earth to die to atone for sins. Isaiah 53 describes this.

RESPONSE: No. the Suffering Servant isn’t Christ.

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/Isaiah_53_The ... rvant.html
. “Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant�:
• “You are My servant, O Israel� (41:8)
• “You are My servant, Israel� (49:3)
• see also Isaiah 44:1, 44:2, 44:21, 45:4, 48:20
The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant�; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant� in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.�

https://outreachjudaism.org/isaiah-53-d ... long-life/
And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see seed, He shall prolong his days, and God’s purpose shall prosper in his hand.
(Isaiah 53:10)

For the Church, this verse presents numerous staggering problems. To begin with, Jesus did not have any biological children. The Hebrew word [rz (zerah), which appears in Isaiah 53:10 – it is the blessing bestowed on the servant – means “seed.� This Hebrew word can only refer to biological offspring when used in connection with a person’s children, never metaphoric children, such as disciples. The Hebrew word that can refer to metaphoric children is !b (ben).
Moreover, according to Church teachings, Jesus died when he was approximately 30 years old, less than half the expected life span of an ordinary man (Psalm 90:10). Obviously, both the blessing of a home filled with children and long life were not fulfilled in Jesus’ lifetime.

And Jesus certainly didn’t have a long life!
Now let’s get back to the topic of my post.

Were there other messiah-candidates in Jesus’ day?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius.advice]

Yes there were but non e of them were successful. The Messianic quest under Rome in Israel ended in the most devastating destruction and diaspora of Israel .

[polonius]

JW posted:

polonius.advice wrote:

Jesus never actually claimed himself that we was the Messiah although he did not correct others who said he was.

Quote:

JOHN 4: 25
The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.� Jesus said to her: “I am he, the one speaking to you.�

How would you summarize what Jesus did in this passage? (I'm not asking what he did not do, I'm asking you what, if anything, he was doing by uttering the response above)

RESPONSE:

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs.



* 25 The woman said to him, “I know that the Messiah is coming, the one called the Anointed; when he comes, he will tell us everything.�

26Jesus said to her, “I am he,* the one who is speaking with you.�l

New American Bible:

Footnotes:
* [4:25] The expectations of the Samaritans are expressed here in Jewish terminology. They (the Samaritans )did not expect a messianic king of the house of David but a prophet like Moses (Dt 18:15).


It should be noted that this was supposedly said by Jesus reported by a non-witness writing about 62 years after the fact. (In or after 95 AD). And only John more or less claims that Jesus was divine.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 5 by polonius.advice]

Yes there were but none of them were successful. The Messianic quest under Rome in Israel ended in the most devastating destruction and diaspora of Israel .

RESPONSE:

This is true. There were a number of messiah candidates. All were eventually killed by the Romans.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus never actually claimed himself that [h]e was the Messiah

Obviously Jesus did not claim to be King of the Jews, but perhaps one of messiahs..

So your point is that Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah but perhaps he claimed to be one of the Messiah?

Do you have any evidence that Jesus suggested there would be more than one Messiah?

[polonius]

There is no "evidence" that Jesus suggested anything. The accounts of Jesus were all written in the second part of the first century long after his death by non-witnesses, in an effort to make converts.

So all the "Jesus said" arguments are unproven.