Are all scriptures "God breathed"Are scripture or

[polonius]

Is all scripture "God breathed" (II Timothy), or not? Divisions in Christianity are based upon the answer to this question.

http://www.lcdiocese.org/why-catholic/8 ... alism.html

“ (W)e can trace the roots of today’s Fundamentalism to the beginning of the twentieth century. During the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries, there arose deep divisions among some of the Churches concerning the findings of biology, psychology and the other sciences when explaining the Scriptures. These Christians were called "Liberals" or "Modernists." "Conservatives," on the other hand, saw no need to rethink their understanding of basic doctrines.

One small group of Conservatives became intensely opposed to what they called Modernism. Between 1909 and 1915, they published a series of pamphlets entitled The Fundaments: A Testimony to the Truth. The term, "Fundamentalist," began to be used in reference to those conservatives who agreed with the teachings outlined in The Fundamentals pamphlets.�

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bibl ... wmk1e4vyUk

“To declare that the Bible is the one and only Word of God, folks most often cite 2 TIMOTHY 3:16. There Paul seems to inform Timothy that the Bible is God-breathed, in stark contrast to other writings, which are the mere fumblings of man. What very few of these folks seem to notice is that just eight verses prior, Paul refers to the legend of Jannes and Jambres, which is wildly extra-Biblical (2 TIMOTHY 3:16).�

[polonius]

[Replying to post 10 by JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE:

If there were supposed to be about 2 million Hebrews (about 1/4 the population of Egypt) and Hebrews were in Egypt of 400 years, there at least would be some graves or even a broken piece of pottery. The Egyptians have no records of one fourth of their population (?) and the one writing that has been found places the Hebrews in Canaan, one can be morally certain that there were no Hebrews in Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

"Now in the collection of the Egyptian Museum at Cairo, the stele is a black granite slab, over 3 meters (10 feet) high, and the inscription says it was carved in the 5th year of Merneptah of the 19th dynasty. Most of the text glorifies Merneptah's victories over enemies from Libya and their Sea People allies, but the final two lines mention a campaign in Canaan, where Merneptah says he defeated and destroyed Ashkalon, Gezer, Yanoam and Israel."


In the case of archaeology, "absence of evidence" is sure evidence of absence.

Incidentally, when and where were the first seven books of the Bible written?

[JehovahsWitness]

If there were supposed to be about 2 million Hebrews (about 1/4 the population of Egypt) and Hebrews were in Egypt of 400 years, there at least would be some graves or even a broken piece of pottery.

Firstly where do you get that figures from? Out of your hat?

Secondly what are you talking about no graves in Egypt, are you suggesting there is no archaeological evidence anyone ever died in Egypt?

Are you suggesting that there have been no discovery of any pottery dating from ancient Egypt?

In the case of archaeology, "absence of evidence" is sure evidence of absence.

No it is not.






JW

[polonius]

If there were supposed to be about 2 million Hebrews (about 1/4 the population of Egypt) and Hebrews were in Egypt of 400 years, there at least would be some graves or even a broken piece of pottery.

Firstly where do you get that figures from? Out of your hat?

RESPONSE: No. From Exodus which tells us that Moses had 600,000 fighting men. Presumably, most had wives (+600,000). Presumably many had children even multiple children. And there were men (and wives) too old to fight.

Secondly what are you talking about no graves in Egypt, are you suggesting there is no archaeological evidence anyone ever died in Egypt?

RESPONSE: No. There is no archeological evidence that any of the remains were Hebrew. Manner of preparing the corpse, etc.

Are you suggesting that there have been no discovery of any pottery dating from ancient Egypt?

RESPONSE: There was no Hebrew pottery found. But it has been found in Canaan.

In the case of archaeology, "absence of evidence" is sure evidence of absence.

No it is not.

RESPONSE: Following your type of argument , if I say I discovered a cure for cancer but misplaced it, everybody has to believe me because there "is no evidence of its absence." Would you expect people to believe you?


The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, a book published in 2001, discusses the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins and content of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

"As noted by a reviewer on Salon.com[2] the approach and conclusions of The Bible Unearthed are not particularly new. Ze'ev Herzog, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, wrote a cover story for Haaretz in 1999 in which he reached similar conclusions following the same methodology; Herzog noted also that some of these findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades, even though they have only recently begun to make a dent in the awareness of the general public.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

(But evidently not JW???)

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: No. There is no archeological evidence that any of the remains were Hebrew. Manner of preparing the corpse, etc.

So are you suggesting that only natural born Egyptians ever died in ancient Egypt?

According to James K. Hoffmeier PHd, Professor of Old Testament and Near Eastern Archaeology, Trinity International University, both Egyptian writings and archeological evidence indicates that Semites (such as the ancient Hebrews) were allowed to enter Egypt with their herds during times of famine. Although Egyptian records do not specifically mention the Israelites, Egyptian tomb paintings and scrolls confirm that the Egyptians used foreigners to make bricks out of mud and straw. Hoffmeier confirms “ that forced labor was imposed on foreigners . . . during the general period when the oppression of the Israelites occurred. �

NOTE The bible speaks of Joseph (a non-egyptian) being mumified; there is nothing in the bible that indicated that such mumification was prohibed for the Hebrews so there is no reason to presume that none of the hundreds of bodies discovered in numerous cemeteries in ancient Egypt were Hebrew. Further, without undergoing specific processus bodies usually decompose so there is no reason to believe we should find bodies of people that died thousands of years after the worms got to them. If the Hebrews (Canaanites) had the tradition of putting bodies in caves or burying them - Jacob's beloved wife Rachel was burried under a tree (where there must have been a water source) - there wouldn't be much of her to dig up 3000 years later

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: There was no Hebrew pottery found

You sure about that are you?

[JehovahsWitness]

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, a book published in 2001, discusses the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins and content of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

"As noted by a reviewer on Salon.com[2] the approach and conclusions of The Bible Unearthed are not particularly new. Ze'ev Herzog, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, wrote a cover story for Haaretz in 1999 in which he reached similar conclusions following the same methodology; Herzog noted also that some of these findings have been accepted by the majority of biblical scholars and archaeologists for years and even decades, even though they have only recently begun to make a dent in the awareness of the general public.[2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

What is the point of this quotation? It doesn't contain an affirmative statement of any description.

[Tcg]

RESPONSE: There was no Hebrew pottery found

You sure about that are you?

Are you suggesting that this is a picture of Hebrew pottery? A friend of mine used to collect ancient pottery from the area in and around Jerusalem and none of it looked anything like this.

[JehovahsWitness]

RESPONSE: There was no Hebrew pottery found

You sure about that are you?

Are you suggesting that this is a picture of Hebrew pottery? A friend of mine used to collect ancient pottery from the area in and around Jerusalem and none of it looked anything like this.

No, it's an inscription. Are you suggesting inscriptions don't qualify as archeological evidence (which is the point under discussion)?

[bluethread]

Paul never claims to be writing scripture.

This is true. What he was referring to was the Tanakh(OT). That said, there is a hierarchy when it comes to the scriptures. Some hold the Torah as the only Scripture, just as some Christians see only the Gospels as Scripture. Karites see only the Tanakh as Scripture. Rabbinic Judaism includes the Talmud, arguing that some things were only revealed to Moshe' verbally and were passed own orally. Still others include rabbinic commentary under the principle of bet din, the authority given to Moshe' to apply HaTorah to specific situations. Regarding the Apostolic Writings, there was clearly a dispute between Paul and the Yacovites, exacerbated by Peter. This is not hidden but clearly recorded by Luke and referred to by Paul. I believe that this dispute was addressed at the Jerusalem Council, by noting that one need not undergo brit milah in order to attend synagogue. One is just required to acknowledge HaTorah as authoritative, avoid running afoul of hot bottton issues and commit to studying HaTorah in accordance with the Shema.

[Tcg]

RESPONSE: There was no Hebrew pottery found

You sure about that are you?

Are you suggesting that this is a picture of Hebrew pottery? A friend of mine used to collect ancient pottery from the area in and around Jerusalem and none of it looked anything like this.

No, it's an inscription. Are you suggesting inscriptions don't qualify as archeological evidence (which is the point under discussion)?

You presented it as an argument against the claim that no Hebrew pottery was found. So I ask again, "Are you suggesting that this is a picture of Hebrew pottery?"