JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[TripleZ]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

allow me to help you out here;
Verse relating to Isa 61 vs 1 are these;
Isaiah 61:1
Spirit: Isa 11:2-5, Isa 42:1, Isa 59:21; Mat 3:16; Luk 4:18-19; Joh 1:32-33, Joh 3:34
anointed: Psa 2:6 *marg. Psa 45:7; Dan 9:24; Joh 1:41; Act 4:27, Act 10:38; Heb 1:9
to preach: Isa 52:9; Psa 22:26, Psa 25:9, Psa 69:32, Psa 149:4; Mat 5:3-5, Mat 11:5; Luk 7:22
to bind: Isa 57:15, Isa 66:2; Psa 34:18, Psa 51:17, Psa 147:3; Hos 6:1; 2Co 7:6
to proclaim: The proclaiming of perfect liberty to the bound, and the year of acceptance with Jehovah, is a manifest allusion to the proclaiming of the year of the jubilee by sound of trumpet; and our Saviour, by applying this text to himself, plainly declares the typical design of that institution. Isa 42:7, Isa 49:9, Isa 49:24-25; Psa 102:20; Jer 34:8; Zec 9:11-12; Joh 8:32-36; Act 26:18; Rom 6:16-22, Rom 7:23-25; 2Ti 2:25-26

and;
Verse relating to Isa 61 verse 2;
are, Isaiah 61:2
the acceptable: Lev 25:9-13; Luk 4:19; 2Co 6:2
and: Isa 34:8, Isa 35:4, Isa 59:17-18, Isa 63:1-6, Isa 66:14; Psa 110:5-6; Jer 46:10; Mal 4:1-3; Luk 21:22-24; 1Th 2:16; 2Th 1:7-9
to comfort: Isa 25:8, Isa 57:18, Isa 66:10-12; Jer 31:13; Mat 5:4; Luk 6:21, Luk 7:44-50; Joh 16:20-22; 2Co 1:4-5; 2Th 2:16-17

More importantly. the SENTENCE HAS NOT YET FINISHED YET AT VS 2;

SO to conclude;
Isa 61:3 yes, provide for those in Tziyon who mourn, giving them garlands instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a cloak of praise instead of a heavy spirit, so that they will be called oaks of righteousness planted by Adonai, in which he takes pride.

and so, Isaiah 61:3
beauty: Isa 12:1; Est 4:1-3, Est 8:15, Est 9:22; Psa 30:11; Eze 16:8-13
the oil: Psa 23:5, Psa 45:7, Psa 104:15; Ecc 9:8; Joh 16:20
the garment: Isa 61:10; Zec 3:5; Luk 15:22; Rev 7:9-14
called: Isa 60:21; Psa 92:12-15; Jer 17:7-8; Mat 7:17-19
that he: Mat 5:16; Joh 15:8; 1Co 6:20; Php 1:11; 2Th 1:10; 1Pe 2:9, 1Pe 4:9-11, 1Pe 4:14

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of Adonai Elohim is upon me, because Adonai has anointed me to announce good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted; to proclaim freedom to the captives, to let out into light those bound in the dark;
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of the favor of Adonai and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn,
Isa 61:3 yes, provide for those in Tziyon who mourn, giving them garlands instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a cloak of praise instead of a heavy spirit, so that they will be called oaks of righteousness planted by Adonai, in which he takes pride.

Amen! Praise the Lord Yeshua!!

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 500 by TripleZ]

So TripleZ, do you believe God the Father, (the God of Israel), has a personal name?

[brianbbs67]

Why is this so hard?


Only those who ate and drank saw god. Which should discount the thought of no one has seen Him.

NO ONE has seen God. (John 1:18)

Look back to Exodus. Moses, Aaron, his sons and , I believe 70 leaders, had a meal and drank with God. Thus the quote from Christ.

Where in Exodus does it say this?

JPS Tanakh Exodus 24:9

Then Moses and Aaron , Nadab and Abihu, and the 70 elders of Isreal ascended ; and they saw the God of Isreal; under His feet there was the likeness of a pavement of sapphire, like the very sky for purity. Yet He did not raise His hand against the leaders* of the Israelites; they beheld God, and they ate and drank.

*meaning of Hebrew 'asilim uncertain.

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

allow me to help you out here;
Verse relating to Isa 61 vs 1 are these;
Isaiah 61:1
Spirit: Isa 11:2-5, Isa 42:1, Isa 59:21; Mat 3:16; Luk 4:18-19; Joh 1:32-33, Joh 3:34
anointed: Psa 2:6 *marg. Psa 45:7; Dan 9:24; Joh 1:41; Act 4:27, Act 10:38; Heb 1:9
to preach: Isa 52:9; Psa 22:26, Psa 25:9, Psa 69:32, Psa 149:4; Mat 5:3-5, Mat 11:5; Luk 7:22
to bind: Isa 57:15, Isa 66:2; Psa 34:18, Psa 51:17, Psa 147:3; Hos 6:1; 2Co 7:6
to proclaim: The proclaiming of perfect liberty to the bound, and the year of acceptance with Jehovah, is a manifest allusion to the proclaiming of the year of the jubilee by sound of trumpet; and our Saviour, by applying this text to himself, plainly declares the typical design of that institution. Isa 42:7, Isa 49:9, Isa 49:24-25; Psa 102:20; Jer 34:8; Zec 9:11-12; Joh 8:32-36; Act 26:18; Rom 6:16-22, Rom 7:23-25; 2Ti 2:25-26

and;
Verse relating to Isa 61 verse 2;
are, Isaiah 61:2
the acceptable: Lev 25:9-13; Luk 4:19; 2Co 6:2
and: Isa 34:8, Isa 35:4, Isa 59:17-18, Isa 63:1-6, Isa 66:14; Psa 110:5-6; Jer 46:10; Mal 4:1-3; Luk 21:22-24; 1Th 2:16; 2Th 1:7-9
to comfort: Isa 25:8, Isa 57:18, Isa 66:10-12; Jer 31:13; Mat 5:4; Luk 6:21, Luk 7:44-50; Joh 16:20-22; 2Co 1:4-5; 2Th 2:16-17

More importantly. the SENTENCE HAS NOT YET FINISHED YET AT VS 2;

SO to conclude;
Isa 61:3 yes, provide for those in Tziyon who mourn, giving them garlands instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a cloak of praise instead of a heavy spirit, so that they will be called oaks of righteousness planted by Adonai, in which he takes pride.

and so, Isaiah 61:3
beauty: Isa 12:1; Est 4:1-3, Est 8:15, Est 9:22; Psa 30:11; Eze 16:8-13
the oil: Psa 23:5, Psa 45:7, Psa 104:15; Ecc 9:8; Joh 16:20
the garment: Isa 61:10; Zec 3:5; Luk 15:22; Rev 7:9-14
called: Isa 60:21; Psa 92:12-15; Jer 17:7-8; Mat 7:17-19
that he: Mat 5:16; Joh 15:8; 1Co 6:20; Php 1:11; 2Th 1:10; 1Pe 2:9, 1Pe 4:9-11, 1Pe 4:14

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of Adonai Elohim is upon me, because Adonai has anointed me to announce good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted; to proclaim freedom to the captives, to let out into light those bound in the dark;
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the year of the favor of Adonai and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn,
Isa 61:3 yes, provide for those in Tziyon who mourn, giving them garlands instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, a cloak of praise instead of a heavy spirit, so that they will be called oaks of righteousness planted by Adonai, in which he takes pride.

Amen! Praise the Lord Yeshua!!

I'm sorry but your point is not clear. Students of the Scriptures know that "Adonai" REPLACED the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) in the Hebrew Scriptures. Originally the Tetragrammaton appeared in the Hebrew Scriptures 7,000 times, and is translated by most translation committees as "Jehovah." There will usually be an admission somewhere in the Bible version that "Jehovah" has been removed from the text and "Adonai" substituted in, so that people will be more comfortable with the Bible version. Imagine, taking out the name of God and substituting "LORD." Not very honest, wouldn't you say?

This is how Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible renders Isaiah 61: 1-3:

"The spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me to proclaim tidings to the humble, he sent me to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty, and to bound ones an opening of bands. (2)To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all mourners. (3)To appoint to mourners in Zion, to give to them beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, a covering of praise for a spirit of weakness, and He is calling to them, 'Trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah---to be beautified.'"


This is one example of a version that honors the original text, before the name of God was removed.

[Falling Light 101]

[font=Arial]Hello to all. Greetings in the name of love.

I am new here but I have spent some time studying and I have discovered some errors in the trinitarian translations that I never knew and I would like to share these with You.

I am going to prove to You clearly, that the Trinitarian translators of the English Trinitarian Bible have mistranslated and deliberately, purposely lied about the translation of “ Heb 11:1 “ and also Heb_1:3.

~ Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Please notice the word “ SUBSTANCE “ is not the correct word in the original Greek manuscripts here in the above verse.

And also
~ Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.

Please notice what the Trinitarians did here,

the word “ PERSON “ is not the correct word in the original Greek manuscripts here in the above verse.

These two words in these two verses above “ SUBSTANCE “ and “ PERSON “ are really / actually the same exact single Greek word G5287 υ?πο´στασις - hupostasis / hoop-os'-tas-is.
And in these two changed verses, this SAME word - υ?πο´στασις , actually means “ Confidence “ - and not “ SUBSTANCE “ nor “ PERSON “ ……….. The actual meaning is - confidence - υ?πο´στασις = To set under, to (support), that is, assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident. I now will list the five total times that this word “ Confidence “ υ?πο´στασις is used correctly in the New Testament. Remember that the translators changed Heb 1:1 and Heb 1:3 changing the word CONFIDENCE into the two separate and totally unrelated and completely different words of ( “ SUBSTANCE “ and “ PERSON “ ) as Trinitarians attempt to create a new doctrine that tie the word substance and person and how it relates to their trinity teaching. But these words are not in these verses manuscripts whatsoever/.

Let’s take a look at the five total times that this word exists and is present in the New Testament Greek manuscripts.
1.. 2Co 9:4 in this same confident boasting.
2.. 2Co 11:17 in this confidence of boasting.
Trinitarian mistranslation corrected.
3.. Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his confidence,

Here the original manuscripts say that Christ is the expressed image of Gods confidence. - Not Person.
The trinity translators lied.
4.. Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Trinitarian mistranslation corrected.
5.. Heb 11:1 Now faith is the confidence of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Here the original manuscripts say that faith is the confidence of things hoped for. – Not substance.
The trinity translators lied.

REMEMBER that the translators make this change, changing “ Confidence of things hoped for “ to “ SUBSTANCE “ of things hoped for. “ One single time only, in Heb 11:1.
And REMEMBER that the translators made this change, changing “ the express image of his “ CONFIDENCE “ to “ the express image of his “ PERSON. “ - One single time only, in Heb 11:3.

What we see is that in the bible this trinity error is denied. The Bible is in harmony with basic reality and common sense basics and nature and the basic common universal grammar usages of all languages. The Bible does not go out of its way to elaborate on this Trinity concept - There is no doctrine in scriptures that defies, confronts and disregards the meaning of the idea of singular person and a plural persons, declaring that the plural, single person of God and His entity are three distinct / separate persons.

This is nowhere expressed in the Bible. Trinitarians always ignore and change the basic dynamics of reality and grammar, language and common sense. The trinity elaborates on how that Jesus is a separate distinct person from the Father - But one in nature with the Father, adding the word PERSON to the translation - But the word person is never applied to God anywhere in the entire manuscripts.

This teaching is not described in the Bible. And in the original manuscripts - Heb 11:3 never says that Christ is the PERSON of the expression In image form. …. In Heb 11:3. - Christ is the expressed image of Gods - confidence / not Person. ...I agree with the Bible , that Jesus Christ is the Father, Creator, Spirit - who was manifested in the flesh. I see the Trinitarian is simply saying God is ONE - but yet, He is three persons or three separate distinct persons or people.

But - Every person that we know of and in all cases that we see and in all situations everywhere - is always a special, separate single entity and deity and a singular - individual person. We see that Trinitarians are pretending that the idea of multiple “PERSONS� or Confidences. are not really three entities or deities. And we see that there is no other example anywhere that we can imagine that describe anything whatsoever at all as multiple “PERSONS� or Confidences. Notice that to Trinitarians, Jesus literality becomes a distinct / separate “ PERSON “ instead of the expressed image of His Confidence. The fact is that - NEITHER GOD NOR CHRIST ARE CALLED PERSON IN THE MANUSCRIPTS> The Trinitarians add the word person in Heb 11:3……

Even if Trinitarians would have correctly translated the word CONFIDENCE, saying “ expressed image of His “ CONFIDENCE “ - here in Heb 11:3, they - would still continue to attempt to change the message of The Bible by building the translation around their theories, teachings and doctrines instead of leaving the Bible in its original basic form and meaning. However even the Bible denies this trinity error and never attempts to declare or say that God is a “ PERSON “
The Bible is in harmony with basic reality and common sense basic nature. The Bible does not go out of its way to elaborate on this Trinity concept to define and changes the basic dynamics of reality and grammar and common sense that elaborates on how that Jesus is a separate distinct “ PERSON “ from the Father. This teaching is not described in the Bible. We see that the Bible says the opposite of the trinity idea, because here in Heb 1:3, Jesus is described as the Image of Gods “ CONFIDENCE “

And, If the trinity was a part of God, then Heb 1:3 would say that Christ is the image of Gods “ Plural “ CONFIDENCES “ Because Jesus not only is manifested as Image the Father - He also is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Father – The Father is a spirit.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. See here __ Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the expressed image of his { confidence } = Singular.

Christ is the expressed image - This Greek word “ expressed image “ - is - Greek 5481 - χα�ακτη´� - charakte¯r / khar-ak-tar' = Meaning a graver (the tool or the person), engraving ([“character�], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image. This word “ person� here in Heb 1:3 - is not the same meaning as what You normally think of when think of a “ person “ Notice 2Co 9:4 we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. Here the word “ confident “ is the same word as the word person in - Heb 1:3. The Trinitarian translators did not bother to tell the reader this.

In Heb 1:3 - The Confidence of The Father, is what Jesus is here in the verse. Not another PERSON or even a PERSON whatsoever. God is never referred to as a person in the manuscripts, yet Trinitarians have turned God into the concept of a “ PERSON “ in order to insert their trinity doctrine, adding and changing Gods word. [/font]

[Falling Light 101]

[font=Verdana] Hello.
The Bible clearly explains that the purpose and explanation and REASON that The Father was greater than the Son is that the Father manifested Himself in the flesh as the son Yahoshua .

and God Almighty took upon Himself the MORH / FORM of a servant here on earth...

The Bible clearly explains all of this here in Php 2:4-7 And Trinitarians have so contrarily twisted and mistranslated these passages in order to invent their Trinity doctrine that is not in the Bible.

HERE IS THE ORIGINAL .... COMPARE this to Your trinitarian version of the translation that You call The Bible.

Php 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 For think or regard this in / You / yourself who are also in Christ Jesus.

6 Who, was in the form / morph of God, thought it not robbery or seizing, taking (by force) being or
{ eXisting }as equal to - God:

7 But a voided / non effect reputation Himself, taking or receiving the form / morph of a servant - was in the likeness of men:

Christ and The Father were equal, however, God was in Christ reconciling, restoring the world to Himself in the Morph/ form of a servant...

God Literally Created Himself a body. Then took on the MORPH / FORM of a man as He existed on earth and heaven as one single deity.

Also - Notice the word { beginning --- of the creation of God, Here in Rev 3:14 The word Begenning is the same Greek word as principality.

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the principality / beginning of the creation of God; 

Greek 746 - ἀ�χη� - archē / ar-khay'
A commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

[/font]

[marco]

I am new here but I have spent some time studying and I have discovered some errors in the trinitarian translations that I never knew and I would like to share these with You.[/b]


Please notice the word “ SUBSTANCE “ is not the correct word in the original Greek manuscripts ….

……….. The actual meaning is - confidence - υ?πο´στασις = To set under, to (support), that is, assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident.

It is rather harsh to say the translators "lied". Their translation differs from your own. If the root meaning is "to set under" then the word substance seems closer than confidence.


I agree with you that the writers may not have been aware of the Trinity, defined much later, but the translators would take what was written as the best approximation to what is claimed to be a mystery.



Your rational approach can also be used to construe Christ's miracles as metaphors. There is little point in expressing disbelief at one mystery while fully accepting others elsewhere. It would be nice if a study of Greek grammar solved divine mysteries. That would suggest God favours grammarians. Hmmm.

[dianaiad]

[font=Verdana] Hello.
The Bible clearly explains that the purpose and explanation and REASON that The Father was greater than the Son is that the Father manifested Himself in the flesh as the son Yahoshua .

and God Almighty took upon Himself the MORH / FORM of a servant here on earth...

The Bible clearly explains all of this here in Php 2:4-7 And Trinitarians have so contrarily twisted and mistranslated these passages in order to invent their Trinity doctrine that is not in the Bible.

HERE IS THE ORIGINAL .... COMPARE this to Your trinitarian version of the translation that You call The Bible.

Php 2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 For think or regard this in / You / yourself who are also in Christ Jesus.

6 Who, was in the form / morph of God, thought it not robbery or seizing, taking (by force) being or
{ eXisting }as equal to - God:

7 But a voided / non effect reputation Himself, taking or receiving the form / morph of a servant - was in the likeness of men:

Christ and The Father were equal, however, God was in Christ reconciling, restoring the world to Himself in the Morph/ form of a servant...

God Literally Created Himself a body. Then took on the MORPH / FORM of a man as He existed on earth and heaven as one single deity.

Also - Notice the word { beginning --- of the creation of God, Here in Rev 3:14 The word Begenning is the same Greek word as principality.

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the principality / beginning of the creation of God; 

Greek 746 - ἀ�χη� - archē / ar-khay'
A commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

[/font]

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[dianaiad]

[font=Arial]Hello to all. Greetings in the name of love.

I am new here but I have spent some time studying and I have discovered some errors in the trinitarian translations that I never knew and I would like to share these with You.

I am going to prove to You clearly, that the Trinitarian translators of the English Trinitarian Bible have mistranslated and deliberately, purposely lied about the translation of “ Heb 11:1 “ and also Heb_1:3.

~ Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Please notice the word “ SUBSTANCE “ is not the correct word in the original Greek manuscripts here in the above verse.

And also
~ Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.

Please notice what the Trinitarians did here,

the word “ PERSON “ is not the correct word in the original Greek manuscripts here in the above verse.

These two words in these two verses above “ SUBSTANCE “ and “ PERSON “ are really / actually the same exact single Greek word G5287 υ?πο´στασις - hupostasis / hoop-os'-tas-is.
And in these two changed verses, this SAME word - υ?πο´στασις , actually means “ Confidence “ - and not “ SUBSTANCE “ nor “ PERSON “ ……….. The actual meaning is - confidence - υ?πο´στασις = To set under, to (support), that is, assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence, confident. I now will list the five total times that this word “ Confidence “ υ?πο´στασις is used correctly in the New Testament. Remember that the translators changed Heb 1:1 and Heb 1:3 changing the word CONFIDENCE into the two separate and totally unrelated and completely different words of ( “ SUBSTANCE “ and “ PERSON “ ) as Trinitarians attempt to create a new doctrine that tie the word substance and person and how it relates to their trinity teaching. But these words are not in these verses manuscripts whatsoever/.

Let’s take a look at the five total times that this word exists and is present in the New Testament Greek manuscripts.
1.. 2Co 9:4 in this same confident boasting.
2.. 2Co 11:17 in this confidence of boasting.
Trinitarian mistranslation corrected.
3.. Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his confidence,

Here the original manuscripts say that Christ is the expressed image of Gods confidence. - Not Person.
The trinity translators lied.
4.. Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Trinitarian mistranslation corrected.
5.. Heb 11:1 Now faith is the confidence of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Here the original manuscripts say that faith is the confidence of things hoped for. – Not substance.
The trinity translators lied.

REMEMBER that the translators make this change, changing “ Confidence of things hoped for “ to “ SUBSTANCE “ of things hoped for. “ One single time only, in Heb 11:1.
And REMEMBER that the translators made this change, changing “ the express image of his “ CONFIDENCE “ to “ the express image of his “ PERSON. “ - One single time only, in Heb 11:3.

What we see is that in the bible this trinity error is denied. The Bible is in harmony with basic reality and common sense basics and nature and the basic common universal grammar usages of all languages. The Bible does not go out of its way to elaborate on this Trinity concept - There is no doctrine in scriptures that defies, confronts and disregards the meaning of the idea of singular person and a plural persons, declaring that the plural, single person of God and His entity are three distinct / separate persons.

This is nowhere expressed in the Bible. Trinitarians always ignore and change the basic dynamics of reality and grammar, language and common sense. The trinity elaborates on how that Jesus is a separate distinct person from the Father - But one in nature with the Father, adding the word PERSON to the translation - But the word person is never applied to God anywhere in the entire manuscripts.

This teaching is not described in the Bible. And in the original manuscripts - Heb 11:3 never says that Christ is the PERSON of the expression In image form. …. In Heb 11:3. - Christ is the expressed image of Gods - confidence / not Person. ...I agree with the Bible , that Jesus Christ is the Father, Creator, Spirit - who was manifested in the flesh. I see the Trinitarian is simply saying God is ONE - but yet, He is three persons or three separate distinct persons or people.

But - Every person that we know of and in all cases that we see and in all situations everywhere - is always a special, separate single entity and deity and a singular - individual person. We see that Trinitarians are pretending that the idea of multiple “PERSONS� or Confidences. are not really three entities or deities. And we see that there is no other example anywhere that we can imagine that describe anything whatsoever at all as multiple “PERSONS� or Confidences. Notice that to Trinitarians, Jesus literality becomes a distinct / separate “ PERSON “ instead of the expressed image of His Confidence. The fact is that - NEITHER GOD NOR CHRIST ARE CALLED PERSON IN THE MANUSCRIPTS> The Trinitarians add the word person in Heb 11:3……

Even if Trinitarians would have correctly translated the word CONFIDENCE, saying “ expressed image of His “ CONFIDENCE “ - here in Heb 11:3, they - would still continue to attempt to change the message of The Bible by building the translation around their theories, teachings and doctrines instead of leaving the Bible in its original basic form and meaning. However even the Bible denies this trinity error and never attempts to declare or say that God is a “ PERSON “
The Bible is in harmony with basic reality and common sense basic nature. The Bible does not go out of its way to elaborate on this Trinity concept to define and changes the basic dynamics of reality and grammar and common sense that elaborates on how that Jesus is a separate distinct “ PERSON “ from the Father. This teaching is not described in the Bible. We see that the Bible says the opposite of the trinity idea, because here in Heb 1:3, Jesus is described as the Image of Gods “ CONFIDENCE “

And, If the trinity was a part of God, then Heb 1:3 would say that Christ is the image of Gods “ Plural “ CONFIDENCES “ Because Jesus not only is manifested as Image the Father - He also is the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the Father – The Father is a spirit.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. See here __ Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the expressed image of his { confidence } = Singular.

Christ is the expressed image - This Greek word “ expressed image “ - is - Greek 5481 - χα�ακτη´� - charakte¯r / khar-ak-tar' = Meaning a graver (the tool or the person), engraving ([“character�], the figure stamped, that is, an exact copy or [figuratively] representation): - express image. This word “ person� here in Heb 1:3 - is not the same meaning as what You normally think of when think of a “ person “ Notice 2Co 9:4 we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. Here the word “ confident “ is the same word as the word person in - Heb 1:3. The Trinitarian translators did not bother to tell the reader this.

In Heb 1:3 - The Confidence of The Father, is what Jesus is here in the verse. Not another PERSON or even a PERSON whatsoever. God is never referred to as a person in the manuscripts, yet Trinitarians have turned God into the concept of a “ PERSON “ in order to insert their trinity doctrine, adding and changing Gods word. [/font]

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[Monta]

[Replying to post 1 by onewithhim]


"I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? "

Jesus is not but (risen) Jesus Christ is.