The pursuit of happiness

[2ndRateMind]

So, the US Declaration of Independence considers the rights to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' to be endowed by our Creator such that they cannot be divorced from the human condition. These rights, of course, form a hierarchy: if you have no right to life, your rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness are meaningless. Similarly, if you have no right to liberty, you have no right to pursue happiness as best you see fit.

I would like to explore, however, with the help of the forum, this right to the pursuit of happiness. What makes you happy? How best do you think we should express this right to the pursuit of happiness? Does this right have limits, when our own pursuit of happiness impacts someone else's ability to pursue their own happiness?

According to Plato, Socrates thought that all human beings naturally strive after happiness, for happiness is the final end in life and everything we do we do because we think it will make us happy.

Thus, without wishing to prejudice any direction this thread may take, I will observe the following. I have found, in my life, that happiness is best achieved indirectly, as a byproduct of meaningful, purposeful, ethical activity. And it has nothing to do with wealth, once a certain subsistence level is reached. Thus, though I might be richer as a result, mugging old ladies for the contents of their purses would not make me happy, while creating (what I consider to be) well-crafted artworks does, by manifesting beauty in the world.

I also note that the right to pursue happiness does not automatically presume a right to be happy. So, what would be your prescription as to the best way to pursue happiness, and the best way to achieve it?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

Hmmm. A day gone by, and no takers. Maybe you all don't want to be happy, or maybe you all don't know how to be happy.

Sorry, I have been busy persuing happiness. That said, it is not a reference to being joyful. In fact, it wasn't even in the first draft of the Declaration. Originally it was property.

I am glad you have been pursuing happiness. I genuinely hope that your pursuit is successful. The more happy people there are in the world, the happier I shall be.

But, I think you you need to evidence this claim that happiness equates to property. I am not rich, but I am happy. And I know of people who are rich, but not happy. The two states, economic stature and psychological fulfillment, seem to me to be entirely separate, once basic subsistence needs are met. Maybe this first draft was found faulty, for that reason.

Best wishes, 2RM.

I did not say that happiness equates to property. Happiness in the classic sense the freedom to use one's resources as one sees fit, preferably in living a life one can look back on with pride.

[TSGracchus]

Rights, of course, are a pleasant fantasy. You have the "rights" that society grants you, and they can be withdrawn at any time.
What makes me happy varies with circumstances.

[DPMartin]

So, the US Declaration of Independence considers the rights to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' to be endowed by our Creator such that they cannot be divorced from the human condition. These rights, of course, form a hierarchy: if you have no right to life, your rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness are meaningless. Similarly, if you have no right to liberty, you have no right to pursue happiness as best you see fit.

I would like to explore, however, with the help of the forum, this right to the pursuit of happiness. What makes you happy? How best do you think we should express this right to the pursuit of happiness? Does this right have limits, when our own pursuit of happiness impacts someone else's ability to pursue their own happiness?

According to Plato, Socrates thought that all human beings naturally strive after happiness, for happiness is the final end in life and everything we do we do because we think it will make us happy.

Thus, without wishing to prejudice any direction this thread may take, I will observe the following. I have found, in my life, that happiness is best achieved indirectly, as a byproduct of meaningful, purposeful, ethical activity. And it has nothing to do with wealth, once a certain subsistence level is reached. Thus, though I might be richer as a result, mugging old ladies for the contents of their purses would not make me happy, while creating (what I consider to be) well-crafted artworks does, by manifesting beauty in the world.

I also note that the right to pursue happiness does not automatically presume a right to be happy. So, what would be your prescription as to the best way to pursue happiness, and the best way to achieve it?

Best wishes, 2RM.

the statement is a excerpt from United States Declaration of Independence not a constitutional right by law.

[ThePainefulTruth]

So, the US Declaration of Independence considers the rights to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' to be endowed by our Creator such that they cannot be divorced from the human condition. These rights, of course, form a hierarchy: if you have no right to life, your rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness are meaningless. Similarly, if you have no right to liberty, you have no right to pursue happiness as best you see fit.

I would like to explore, however, with the help of the forum, this right to the pursuit of happiness. What makes you happy? How best do you think we should express this right to the pursuit of happiness? Does this right have limits, when our own pursuit of happiness impacts someone else's ability to pursue their own happiness?

According to Plato, Socrates thought that all human beings naturally strive after happiness, for happiness is the final end in life and everything we do we do because we think it will make us happy.

Thus, without wishing to prejudice any direction this thread may take, I will observe the following. I have found, in my life, that happiness is best achieved indirectly, as a byproduct of meaningful, purposeful, ethical activity. And it has nothing to do with wealth, once a certain subsistence level is reached. Thus, though I might be richer as a result, mugging old ladies for the contents of their purses would not make me happy, while creating (what I consider to be) well-crafted artworks does, by manifesting beauty in the world.

I also note that the right to pursue happiness does not automatically presume a right to be happy. So, what would be your prescription as to the best way to pursue happiness, and the best way to achieve it?

Best wishes, 2RM.

You are correct, the right to happiness isn't really a right, it's derivative. And what we should be in pursuit of is something deeper than just happiness, specifically we should be in pursuit of fulfillment--which, ironically, often leads to unhappiness even as we are fulfilled. And an even higher calling than fulfillment is the pursuit of Truth via its aspects, knowledge, justice, love and beauty/art.

Jefferson, in composing the DOI, originally quoted Locke's rights to life, liberty and property. But but given the conflict of the rights to life & liberty, where men under slavery can be property, he opted for the pursuit of happiness. And, FWIW, I think there's a 4th inherent human right that should be listed with the other three that isn't derivative, and that's the right to self-defense.

[bluethread]

And, FWIW, I think there's a 4th inherent human right that should be listed with the other three that isn't derivative, and that's the right to self-defense.

I believe that is the true intent of the right to life. I do not think the founders thought that a person has the right to demand that others keep him alive. One has the right to be free from others interfer with ones efferts to keep oneself alive. The modern concept of the "right to die" was pretty much meaningless at that time. Sure one would have been expected to discourage another person from ending his life, as a practical matter, it was not considered a responsibility of government to stop it.

[ThePainefulTruth]

And, FWIW, I think there's a 4th inherent human right that should be listed with the other three that isn't derivative, and that's the right to self-defense.

I believe that is the true intent of the right to life. I do not think the founders thought that a person has the right to demand that others keep him alive. One has the right to be free from others interfer with ones efferts to keep oneself alive. The modern concept of the "right to die" was pretty much meaningless at that time. Sure one would have been expected to discourage another person from ending his life, as a practical matter, it was not considered a responsibility of government to stop it.

Saying you have a right to life, liberty and property doesn't necessarily give you the right to defend those things. Enforcing the rule of law is governments primary mandate or even raison d'etre, and if t they aren't handy, it's up to the individual or coalition of individuals. And today, the Left assumes that only government can defend you, regardless of what the founders said or thought.

[bluethread]

And, FWIW, I think there's a 4th inherent human right that should be listed with the other three that isn't derivative, and that's the right to self-defense.

I believe that is the true intent of the right to life. I do not think the founders thought that a person has the right to demand that others keep him alive. One has the right to be free from others interfer with ones efferts to keep oneself alive. The modern concept of the "right to die" was pretty much meaningless at that time. Sure one would have been expected to discourage another person from ending his life, as a practical matter, it was not considered a responsibility of government to stop it.

Saying you have a right to life, liberty and property doesn't necessarily give you the right to defend those things. Enforcing the rule of law is governments primary mandate or even raison d'etre, and if t they aren't handy, it's up to the individual or coalition of individuals. And today, the Left assumes that only government can defend you, regardless of what the founders said or thought.

I disagree. The primary role of government, under our Constitution, is to secure the rights of the individuals and the states respectively. The government derives it's powers to institute laws and enforce them to that end, from the consent of the governed. The bed rock principles are the rights, not the laws or the government. That was the point of the Bill of Rights. The founders observed through history that simply establishing a governing mechanism and a common law judicial system was not sufficient to stop tyranny. They understood that it is only through securing rights, that tyranny can be avoided.

[ThePainefulTruth]

I disagree. The primary role of government, under our Constitution, is to secure the rights of the individuals and the states respectively. The government derives it's powers to institute laws and enforce them to that end, from the consent of the governed. The bed rock principles are the rights, not the laws or the government. That was the point of the Bill of Rights. The founders observed through history that simply establishing a governing mechanism and a common law judicial system was not sufficient to stop tyranny. They understood that it is only through securing rights, that tyranny can be avoided.

In the US, under the Constitution, securing the rights of individuals and the states equals or is the basis for the rule of law it enforces--and it should be the ONLY basis for any governmental rule of law.

[TSGracchus]

Those who believe themselves to be governing are themselves governed by their own impulses and circumstances. Those who pursue happiness are like a dog chasing a car, who wouldn't know what to do with it if they caught it.

Anticipation gives more enjoyment than fulfillment. (Neuroscientists have done the measurements.)

[ThePainefulTruth]

Anticipation gives more enjoyment than fulfillment. (Neuroscientists have done the measurements.)

That's because, so often people choose to pursue empty goals which they think equals success and fulfillment. The top pursuits are to be wealthy and a control freak--with sexual exploits being a close third, which are enabled by the first two
.