is homosexuality worse then other sins?

[zahndervan]

another highly debated topic in my life!



the way that people treat homosexuals makes it seem like homosexuality is a more horrible sin than other ones. i dont believe that its true! sin is sin and its all discusting to God! so what gives us the right to judge homosexuals when we also live in sin everyday? they should be allowed to join the church and be pastors or w/e because like them we knowingly live in sin from day to day.



ahh im ranting now...


what are all of your thoughts?

[Caligar]

another highly debated topic in my life!



the way that people treat homosexuals makes it seem like homosexuality is a more horrible sin than other ones. i dont believe that its true! sin is sin and its all discusting to God! so what gives us the right to judge homosexuals when we also live in sin everyday? they should be allowed to join the church and be pastors or w/e because like them we knowingly live in sin from day to day.



ahh im ranting now...


what are all of your thoughts?

Homosexuality is different. They make the consious choice to do so (I know its not a choice, but you know what I mean) while most other sins are incidental, such as stubbing your toe on a cabnet and useing "The lords name in vain".

[bernee51]

another highly debated topic in my life!



the way that people treat homosexuals makes it seem like homosexuality is a more horrible sin than other ones. i dont believe that its true! sin is sin and its all discusting to God! so what gives us the right to judge homosexuals when we also live in sin everyday? they should be allowed to join the church and be pastors or w/e because like them we knowingly live in sin from day to day.



ahh im ranting now...


what are all of your thoughts?

Homosexuality is not a sin.

[zahndervan]

Homosexuality is different. They make the consious choice to do so (I know its not a choice, but you know what I mean) while most other sins are incidental, such as stubbing your toe on a cabnet and useing "The lords name in vain".

not really at least i know for me that i consciously sin as does everybody at least one time in their life if not more.

[zahndervan]

Homosexuality is not a sin.

it clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is a sin.

[bernee51]

Homosexuality is not a sin.

it clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is a sin.

Oh I see - a you mean it is a sin as far as christians are concerned. I, personally, do not consider it a sin. Then I don't consider any action 'sinful' as thre is no god against whom to sin.

[zahndervan]

Oh I see - a you mean it is a sin as far as christians are concerned. I, personally, do not consider it a sin. Then I don't consider any action 'sinful' as thre is no god against whom to sin.

Umm... yeah.

[melikio]

it clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is a sin

I personally think that view is mostly a matter of how one would interpret or apply what they've taken from the "Bible". It can be argued "biblically", that homosexuality isn't the "sin" which many have turned it into today.

Even so, I can biblically point out in most cases where "Christian" people have a hateful and hypocritical attitude towards homosexual people.

I've literally given up arguing with (most) Christians point-for-point about "homosexuality"; it's something I've come to view as a very futile exercise (overall). The contentiousness related to the whole "issue", is something I try very hard to avoid. I can't see how it will take anything less than a bonafide "miracle" to get certain people to understand what they DO TO HOMOSEXUAL PEOPLE, in the name of their "religious" and "moral" views. I know MANY don't really care about those negative effects (as long as they are simply negative); but I don't think/believe that God is numbered among them.

And that is one clear reason why many Christians have been so ineffectual in actually "helping" people who are "homosexual" (about as ineffectual as they are in helping people who are "heterosexual" with their "sin"). The whole approach of many concerning homosexuality, involves a "lopsided" sense of justice, cruelty, hatred and hypocrisy. God is no more on the side of those who are like that, than He is on the side of bomb-wielding terrorists (or religious zealots) who indiscriminately kill (murder) massive numbers of human beings (in the name of THEIR GOD, or their religion).

It's BS, plain and clear... but it takes reasonableness and courage to communicate that (a real and practical sense of grace/justice) in the face of those who want you to just "go-along" with the crowd. LOVE would help, but that is something many "Christians" talk about, far more than they understand and/or practice it.

-Mel-

[melikio]

http://forums.christianity.com/m_310107/mpage_58/tm.htm

The link above, points to a site where I used to post regularly. It was interesting that as I began to make a dent in the foolishly "exclusive" religious thinking of some, the site administrator began to enforce the most "biased" TOS I'd experienced on the internet. And it seemed as if any time someone would make a decent or SOLID point concerning how/why "homosexual" people might be treated more humanely, it was typically deemed intolerable or too "soft" on homosexuality.

I recently went back in there to see where things had evolved to over the last couple of years, and it seems not much has changed (somewhat expected).

Still a bunch of "Christians" are causing and allowing themselves to think or believe that the "standard" they heap upon "homosexuals" is the BEST thing going (as far as "Christianity" might be concerned. To me, it was a significant example just how "business-as-usual" some people can be in their closed-mindedness; as if THEY had THE mind of God in a "capsule" form or something.

I could easily get kicked off of that site, because I do see any need to TORTURE or OPPRESS homosexuals into "changing"; and I tend to express the same gently but OPENLY. I was not well-tolerated when I did that the last time I participated there; and since the site's "leadership" hadn't become any more tolerant of views like mine, I recently made one final post (addressing FAR MORE than the "sexuality" of it all). As I looked back at it for responses (or deletion), I thought it would be appropriate to share it here. And I'd love for some here to take a look at the "Christianity" many have decided to basically HURL at homosexual people.

Here's what I posted:

Yes, I think it's best to move on from this thread, and for most Christians they'll have to make up their minds to actively and/or spiritually oppose homosexuality. And the actual effectiveness of that will hinge upon God's will, just as Christians should understand that ALL things do.

Another highly-important issue, concerns itself with HOW we as a society (or "Christians") decide to treat homosexual people (or other "sinners"). For it is relatively comfortable and easy to talk about "homosexuality" as if it's not connected to people, but the reality is that no matter what one thinks of it, it is a common condition or affliction. We DO have to ask and consider the effects of what WE as individuals have upon the PEOPLE who happen to be homosexual (or those involved in some other "sin"); we have to be keenly aware that other human beings (not aligned with our values, beliefs and moral sensibilities) are people that God has placed here as well. And it takes little more than The Golden Rule (covered in 1Cor13) to make a MULTITUDE of things literally better on this planet. You see, LOVE (not feel-goody emotion) IS THE ANSWER. After seeing two leaders die to promote it (Jesus and MLK Jr.), I personally could not help but notice the REAL power of that approach to things. And I've lived a life where I've practiced it (not perfectly); but have not seen it FAIL. (And it's why I consider myself a believer, many decades and some years from almost losing ALL OF MY FAITH; if I hadn't seen that glimpse of love, I'd have rejected religion/Christianity long ago.)

Though it's hard to find (so that it can be shared or examined openly), the literal thoughts of people who have struggled or continue to struggle (or simply fall repeatedly) need a forum where things can be presented as they really HIT (touch) us as human beings. I mean, there is an approach that appears to be comfortable with dehumanizing homosexuals (while only winking at such dehumanization); and there is the approach that seems to almost "coddle" what many (not all) view as a serious sin. Some people "hint" about love where it concerns homosexual people, but honestly it's really hard to find the kind of example that helps someone struggling with "homosexuality" to be embraced as a human being (not as a "homosexual" per se).

I'm not making this one post to speak for God, but to say that I've read thousands of posts in threads such as this, and read even more on this subject outside of the internet. It will take a literal miracle to find the kind of resolutions which many seek about these things. We cannot spend our lives trying to "solve" mankind; it just seems futile to me (after all these years); some things (it's clear) only God can do or call into "being".

But I encourage ALL (despite whatever side of the battle you find yourselves) to employ faith, hope and love to the fullest. For I can tell anyone this in perfectly good conscience:

The answers aren't "simple" or "easy"; the pain and suffering associated with this issue is literally INSURMOUNTABLE and for many a "decent" answer or "approach" by those they see as being "Christian", has their view of Christianity (and Jesus) hanging in the balance. The one-shot approval/disapproval of homosexuality, is like sleet hitting a tin roof (it may make some noise, but do little else). That is, for real positive and holy effects to come from the "Christianity" (which many do espouse concerning this) to be significant, people (especially those who struggle, or have literally lost hope) need to know that "someone" really cares about them. No, not just in words (as this post), but in the communities, streets, sidewalks, churches, workplaces and schools...etc.

There ARE people who can debate all the time. But it is ultimately God's effect upon the conscience of an individual that prevails (in the most practical sense). Sin IS all over the place; most know well that it's to be avoided. Even so, if anyone approaches any other person with LESS than real love and concern for them, then they've already FAILED in whatever they think it is they were out to do.

And the best way to sum it all up as I leave this thread, is to say that LOVE applied IN ACTION, will always be more significant than ideas, philosophies, words or even doctrines. I think Jesus Christ illustrated that in a way, that this world is STILL trying to understand.

Peace and grace to you all in Christ,

-0bserver 1-

-Mel-

[Greatest I Am]

COMMENT
GAYS


It is not unusual to find that in the animal world of which we all are a part of, to find gay's practicing and exercising their natural tendencies.
Nature has not lost the ability to make natural things that do different things.
To suggest that Gay's are somehow unnatural is wrong.

Man' strongest instinct is to reproduce. No question.
It is not surprising that the issue of homosexuality is in the forefront of our thinking.

In a universe where God loves all souls, all souls must be looked upon with the same reverence we give to other souls. How can we justify this in light of Go out and reproduce. Hard to do.
I would suggest that the writers of the bible were looking for a way to reverse the trend in sexuality that they were seeing at that time.
The trend in those days were certainly different than today.
Some of the customs of the day include adult males having free access to their own young with impunity etc.... no need for details here, suffice it to say that maleness and femaleness were loosing their meaning in sexual practice.
Not good.
The bible is full of retribution for a number of practices that are "legal" today.
That is about in line with other discrepancies of the bible.
We pick and choose freely, from the verses and what not in the bible to justify our position on various issues, why not this one.
Having said this our, only recourse then is to use our own logic and intelligence to resolve this issue.
To condemn any gay's or their practices, we need to first figure out what God would do when these souls get to haven.
God, to deny these souls heaven, would have to admit to a failure in producing a perfect soul.
A perfect God can not admit to a failure, this is supposed to be impossible for a God.
We see then that it is only our own failure to perceive the perfection of these souls
that make us dislike them. This indicates that any believer must by force of the philosophy of our bible, accept these souls because the benevolence of God would override all other aspects of this issue.
We need to assume that God allows gay's and lesbians to exist for a reason, that reason may be to teach us something about discrimination.

Any that discriminate against these groups still have yet to learn that lesson.

Thank God for gay’s and all others on this earth who have been chosen by God to teach us this lesson.


Regards
DL