Dan Barker's Easter Challenge (for PinSeeker)

[Kapyong]

Gday all,

Here is Dan Barker's famous Easter Challenge for Christians :
https://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/stone.php

'' I HAVE AN EASTER challenge for Christians. My challenge is simply this: tell me what happened on Easter. I am not asking for proof. My straightforward request is merely that Christians tell me exactly what happened on the day that their most important doctrine was born.

Believers should eagerly take up this challenge, since without the resurrection, there is no Christianity. Paul wrote, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not." (I Corinthians 15:14-15)

The conditions of the challenge are simple and reasonable. In each of the four Gospels, begin at Easter morning and read to the end of the book: Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21. Also read Acts 1:3-12 and Paul's tiny version of the story in I Corinthians 15:3-8. These 165 verses can be read in a few moments. Then, without omitting a single detail from these separate accounts, write a simple, chronological narrative of the events between the resurrection and the ascension: what happened first, second, and so on; who said what, when; and where these things happened. ''

Are you up for the challenge, PinSeeker ?
Or any other Christian here ?

Let's be clear -
your account cannot OMIT anything from those source accounts.

Kapyong

[Kapyong]

Gday all,

Anyone who actually tries this challenge (let's face it - no-one here will do so) will find the following problems :

What time did the women visit the tomb?

• Matthew: "as it began to dawn" (28:1)
  Mark: "very early in the morning . . . at the rising of the sun" (16:2, KJV); "when the sun had risen" (NRSV); "just after sunrise" (NIV)
  Luke: "very early in the morning" (24:1, KJV) "at early dawn" (NRSV)
  John: "when it was yet dark" (20:1)

Who were the women?

• Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
  Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
  Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women (24:10)
  John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)

What was their purpose?

• Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
  Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
  Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
  John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived (19:39,40)

Was the tomb open when they arrived?

• Matthew: No (28:2)
  Mark: Yes (16:4)
  Luke: Yes (24:2)
  John: Yes (20:1)

Who was at the tomb when they arrived?

• Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
  Mark: One young man (16:5)
  Luke: Two men (24:4)
  John: Two angels (20:12)

Where were these messengers situated?

• Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
  Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
  Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
  John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)

What did the messenger(s) say?

• Matthew: "Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead: and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you." (28:5-7)
  Mark: "Be not afrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you." (16:6-7)
  Luke: "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (24:5-7)
  John: "Woman, why weepest thou?" (20:13)

Did the women tell what happened?

• Matthew: Yes (28:8)
  Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
  Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9, 22-24)
  John: Yes (20:18)

When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected?

• Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
  Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
  Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
  John: No (20:2)

When did Mary first see Jesus?

• Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
  Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
  John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)

Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?

• Matthew: Yes (28:9)
  John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)

After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?

• Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
  Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
  Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
  John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
  Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve? Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)

Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?

• Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away) (28:16-17)
  Mark: To two in the country, to eleven "as they sat at meat" (16:12,14)
  Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31, 36)
  John: In a room, at evening (20:19)

Did the disciples believe the two men?

• Mark: No (16:13)
  Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)

What happened at the appearance?

• Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach." (28:17-20)
  Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
  Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
  John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses them, no reprimand (21:19-23)

Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?

• Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that this was all done on Sunday
  Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
  John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
  Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)

Where did the ascension take place?

• Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
  Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
  Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
  John: No ascension
  Paul: No ascension
  Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

These accounts are so wildly different, they cannot possibly be reconciled. All we get is re-written accounts which change the details and leave most of it out.


Kapyong

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 1 by Kapyong]

Are you up for the challenge, PinSeeker ?
Or any other Christian here ?

I already posed this challenge, and nobody to my knowledge could sensibly reconcile the contradictory resurrection accounts.

We are talking about religious faith here, so truth is not essential.

[PinSeeker]

How about I answer each one of your "problems" in Post 2?

While you're deciding on that, if I were you, I would think twice about putting my "faith" in Dan Barker:

https://danielbwallace.com/2015/08/01/f ... ne-6-2015/

[PinSeeker]

Actually... You know, why re-create the wheel? Here you go:

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/rezrvw.php

Now, admittedly, I didn't read it yet, but I will. There may be some things in there that I might quibble a bit with. But at the very least, it dispels your claim that no one has ever been able to answer it. The internet is a great thing, is it not? Catch you later, Kapyong.

Grace and peace to you.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by PinSeeker]

I notice that this sort of post typifies the typical religious response:

1. They don't know the religion they profess to believe.
2. They don't reply to or even acknowledge any fact that leads to the obvious destruction of their religion.

I always feel sorry for topics like this one, or particularly EJs, where you are expecting an epic defence or rallying to defend a dead God, and instead you get fed the same Bible verses you are decimating or questioning.

"But this Bible verse says black, and it means a cow-pasture."
"No that verse says black and it means black..."

Thanks Kyp, at least for a fascinating topic. It is a pity there is no champion worthy to defend their God.

[JehovahsWitness]

What time did the women visit the tomb?

• Matthew: "as it began to dawn" (28:1)
  Mark: "very early in the morning . . . at the rising of the sun" (16:2, KJV); "when the sun had risen" (NRSV); "just after sunrise" (NIV)
  Luke: "very early in the morning" (24:1, KJV) "at early dawn" (NRSV)
  John: "when it was yet dark" (20:1)

Answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 336#908336[/quote]

[JehovahsWitness]

Who were the women?

• Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
  Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
  Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and other women (24:10)
  John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)

Answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 331#908331

[JehovahsWitness]

Was the tomb open when they arrived?

• Matthew: No (28:2)
  Mark: Yes (16:4)
  Luke: Yes (24:2)
  John: Yes (20:1)

Answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 335#908335

[JehovahsWitness]

Who was at the tomb when they arrived?

• Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
  Mark: One young man (16:5)
  Luke: Two men (24:4)
  John: Two angels (20:12)

Answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 336#908336