Fabricated Jesus theory.

[Elijah John]

There is a theory popular among some if not many here on these boards that Jesus never existed at all. Even as a mortal human being. Or as an historical figure.


Maybe Jesus never existed, maybe he did.

But for those who believe that Jesus never really existed at all, the question is why would anyone bother to fabricate him?

Mythologize an actual human being in a process of hero worship and deification I can understand.

But why make up such a first cenutry Jewish preacher in the first place? What would motivate anyone or any group of individuals to do that?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Arguably to create a powerful character that raises people to a higher plane of living.

Shall we say that the gospel story is the work of the imagination? ... it would be still more incredible that several persons should have agreed together to invent such a book, than that there was one man who supplied its subject matter. The tone and morality of this story are not those of any Jewish authors, and the gospel indeed contains characters so great, so striking, so entirely inimitable, that their invention would be more astonishing than their hero. -- Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Emile Or, On Education, p. 256

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[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Why fabricate an Odin? A Captain America? A James Bond or Constantine?
Arguably for the same reasons.

I see no need for others.

Now there are practical reasons, we manufacture public figures all the time, for real, propaganda and entertainment value.

Lenin was a Jesus of sorts, a literal human bomb sent into Russia to forment revolution. Was he anything that could cause a revolution? No, he was a man, but his following and reputation made him into political force.

Why would someone fabricate Jesus, pick a reason and see how it fits the data, but to believe anyone turned water into wine or performed resurrections, is patently ridiculous.

I think Jesus was simply the last time in history mankind was naive enough to believe in a made-up deity.

[Divine Insight]

But for those who believe that Jesus never really existed at all, the question is why would anyone bother to fabricate him?

I think a lot of people misunderstand this. Possibly even some who argue that Jesus never existed.

What most people mean when they say that "Jesus" never existed is that the person being described in the New Testament never existed precisely "as described".

This doesn't mean that there couldn't have been actual person or persons who gave rise to some of those exaggerated rumors.

In a similar way Paul Bunyan most likely never existed either. However, it is possible that some real person named Paul Bunyan was used as fodder for those exaggerated tales.

I've heard that there a many historians who believe that Hercules actually existed as well. Although, they don't mean to imply that the "real Hercules" actually did the things that have been attributed to the popular Hercules. They simply mean that some guy name Hercules may have done a lot of impressive things. They just got all blown up bigger than life as the tales grew.

So in a very similar way there may have been some guy possibly even named "Jesus" or whatever name is used in the specific version of Christianity. But that doesn't mean that this guy did the things described in the New Testament.

So in this way, the "Jesus of the New Testament" still never existed. Even if some actual person gave rise to those rumors.

[1213]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Why fabricate an Odin? A Captain America? A James Bond or Constantine?
Arguably for the same reasons.
....

Isn’t Captain America, James Bond… made as fiction and not serious fact? I have understood that no one claims he is real. And that I think is the great difference.

Odin, Constantine, Ceasar, Napoleon, Lincoln…. could have existed and may be based on real persons.

[Jagella]

But why make up such a first cenutry Jewish preacher in the first place? What would motivate anyone or any group of individuals to do that?

A real Jesus would be seen as far more effective than a mythological one. Pagan deities were a dime-a-dozen in first-century Israel, so a "historical" Messiah in Jesus would have been more enticing to the gullible and superstitious people of that time...

...in fact, just look at how he is enticing to the gullible and superstitious people today!

[Willum]

[Replying to post 5 by 1213]

Isn’t Captain America, James Bond… made as fiction and not serious fact? I have understood that no one claims he is real. And that I think is the great difference.

Odin, Constantine, Ceasar, Napoleon, Lincoln…. could have existed and may be based on real persons.

Boy you are good at only reading selective parts!
I also said Jesus was the last man-god people were gullible enough to accept.
But I am wrong to think of it, Mao is/was semi-divine.

And the answer was also why people would fabricate them?
To enact fantasy. The fantasy someone will save the world.

[steveb1]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

1. Originally it was not, and was not considered to be, fabrication. It was understood as euhemerization, a deliberate, coded metaphor. Only later did "the masses" read the euhemerized Gospels as factual biography and history.

2. The original Jesus was not considered to be a historical person in the first place, but rather a kind of supreme archangel, a pre-existent "Son" and "Logos".

3. As far as we know, Mark was the first writer to euhemerize the heavenly Christ into the literary figure of Jesus of Nazareth. His motivation was to create a human life which expressed in human/earthly terms the piety and obedience of the celestial Son. This was a teaching device and a parabolic guide to spirituality. Religious edification, in symbolic form, was the reason that the Gospels "fabricated" a human Jesus.

4. Euhemerization:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerus

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/8161

https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/10004

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 8 by steveb1]

If Jesus was not an actual, physical human being, then he was indeed a fabrication. Coded metaphor or not, if he didn't actually exist in a tangible fashion, that is still fabrication. Call it invention if you like, or even "euhemerization", still...fabrication. And the narrative events of his life, allegory.

It would be interesting to "decode" those events, and descipher the meanings behind the various metaphors.

Any examples? Ideas?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

I think it might be more instructive to see how they were applied.
After all, one does not fabricate a hammer to cut wood. Create a story to be boring.

So what were Jesus' actual physical impacts on the world?
How was Jesus used.

I can think that he was used to conquer kingdoms, by conversion, in the New World before the guns were, and then after.

He, and God are used to justify or at least redeem wars, even today.

That's a start.