The Christmas Narrative.

[Elijah John]

The Christmas Narrative, otherwise known as the "Virgin Birth story" is absent from the earliest (and presumably most reliable) Gospel Mark. No mention of it at all. It is only when we get to subsequent Gospels, Matthew and Luke, that we get the Christmas narrative. And John goes a step further, claiming that Jesus has always existed, making the Virgin Birth narrative obsolete.

-For debate,

1) Does this progression indicate a process of myth-making in the deification of Jesus?

2) In order to be "saved", is it important to believe that Jesus was born without the aide of a human Father?

3) If so, why is there no Christmas narrative in the earliest, (and most reliable) Gospel, Mark? Was his audence (readership, community) lacking an essential element of the "plan of salvation"?

[polonius]

Matthew S posted:

Well, a major distinction between Islam and Christianity is that Muslims claim to possess the exact Scripture that was rehearsed by the Prophet(pbuh) and his companions. In this space, there would be no reason for anyone who claims to believe in the Prophet to ever question the accuracy of his revelations--lest he question the faith itself.

RESPONSE: That seems identical to Christianity except that our stories were written 40 to 60 years after the events they claim by non-witnesses.

[Matthew S Islam]

Well, a major distinction between Islam and Christianity is that Muslims claim to possess the exact Scripture that was rehearsed by the Prophet(pbuh) and his companions.

Muhammad claimed he got his text from God. And people choose to believe this. The Islamic version of the Nativity takes place under a palm tree, so we have an Arab setting, with of course lots of fresh water. Muhammad was more persuasive than the Evangelists; he was an astute trader and a fine leader. He had learned lots about Judaism and Christianity, and made appropriate changes - Allah forbid that Allah should have a son is amusingly convincing. And of course, with Jesus demoted to one of many, Muhammad enjoys the status of being the final prophet. Paul would weep!

We believe that God Divinely intervened and saved the Messiah by raising Jesus to Himself. God miraculously caused the event to 'appear' to have taken place as a means of punishing the Jews for their disbelief and failing to keep the covenants.

It is amazing what people will accept. What a work of art is man! This divine joke against the Jews is political rather than religious. I suppose the secret is to feed peope what they want to hear. There is nothing to choose between the absurdities in Christianity and the absurdites in Islam. The correcting pen from the 7th century is too obvious.

Matthew S posted:

Well, a major distinction between Islam and Christianity is that Muslims claim to possess the exact Scripture that was rehearsed by the Prophet(pbuh) and his companions. In this space, there would be no reason for anyone who claims to believe in the Prophet to ever question the accuracy of his revelations--lest he question the faith itself.

RESPONSE: That seems identical to Christianity except that our stories were written 40 to 60 years after the events they claim by non-witnesses.

Hey there folks. I created a thread in the Islam section to avoid spamming/derailing threads here. Feel free to respond/share your views if you'd like:

viewtopic.php?t=35064