Christians and Politics

[amortalman]

The following is a direct quote from a dedicated evangelical Christian:

"We are being told and some Christians believe we should not engage in politics. We are not engaging in politics we are standing for righteousness!"

How do you feel about the above statement?

For debate: Should Christians engage in politics?

[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

Certainly they should. The greater variety of voices is what helps keep us balaned. Dissenting voices prevents full-fledged plunges into distopia. As much as we'd like to disagree, there are certainly some values worth keeping in mind that might otherwise be forgotton and probably should not be. The left seems to go wholly individualistic while simultaneously being world-centric while the [religious] right tends to be group focused with authority constructs while being less world-focused. Both have their needs. Righteousness simply is whatever moral spectrum we decide is right based on our leaning. Religion can't stay out of politics so long as politics is performed by people and people remain religious.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

QUESTION : Should Christians engage in politics?


ANSWER: It is my view as one of Jehovah's Witnesses that they should not.


Jesus said his followers should be no part of this world, we take this, among other things, to mean Christians must remain strictly neutral as to the world's politics. When questioned by Pilate whether he was a king, he did not deny being one but explained kingdom is "no part of the world" . Indeed when the people wanted to make him (Jesus ) a king he withdrew to the mountains rather than see it as an opportunity to create social change through influencing the political system.

Jesus taught about his own incoming kingdom which we believe to be an real government, a govenment that is they only real solution to mankinds problems, so while we do not oppose or subvert governmental powers, and we pay our taxes and obey their laws, we do not vote, hold political office or take sides in deciding which party or group holds power.

While many believe the world's political system is the means by which God operates and will bring about peace on earth, we believe ultimately the political system is part of the world system lead by Satan the Devil and is one way he has successfully diverted people's attention from God's kingdom, divided people , lead them to nationalism and sadly in some cases even a factor why people engage in conflicts and wars (see 2 Cor 4:4).

Rather than seeing a political leader or group of political agents as Gods instruments to bring about God's will on earth, Jehovah's Witnesses give their alligence to the kingdom as the only government that can do this.






JW



FURHER READING Why Do Jehovah's Witnesses Maintain Political Neutrality?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... eutrality/



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NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

Certainly they should. The greater variety of voices is what helps keep us balaned. Dissenting voices prevents full-fledged plunges into distopia. As much as we'd like to disagree, there are certainly some values worth keeping in mind that might otherwise be forgotton and probably should not be. The left seems to go wholly individualistic while simultaneously being world-centric while the [religious] right tends to be group focused with authority constructs while being less world-focused. Both have their needs. Righteousness simply is whatever moral spectrum we decide is right based on our leaning. Religion can't stay out of politics so long as politics is performed by people and people remain religious.

I certainly see your point. At the same time, I remember that during my Christian years it seemed to me that those Christians who were most adamant about getting Christian candidates elected to office were straddling the fence so to speak. They prayed for God to fix the "problem" of godlessness yet got all worked up trying to fix it themselves.
There was a saying going around to "Pray as though it all depends on God, but work as though it all depends on you." As a Christian it made sense. But time and experience showed me that both good and bad things happen regardless of prayers. But I am drifting from the topic.

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by amortalman]

QUESTION : Should Christians engage in politics?

ANSWER: It is my view as one of Jehovah's Witnesses that they shoild not.


Jesus said his followers should be no part of this world, we take this, among other things, to mean Christians must remain strictly neutral as to the world's politics. When questioned by Pilate whether he was a king, he did not deny being one but explained kingdom is "no part of the world" . Indeed when the people wanted to make him (Jesus ) a king he withdrew to the mountains rather than see it as an opportunity to create social change through influencing the political system.

Jesus taught about his own incoming kingdom which we believe to be an real government, a govenment that is they only real solution to mankinds problems, so while we do not oppose or subvert governmental powers, and we pay our taxes and obey their laws, we do not vote, hold political office or take sides in deciding which party or group holds power.

While many believe the world's political system is the means by which God operates and will bring about peace on earth, we believe ultimately the political system is part of the world system lead by Satan the Devil and is one way he has successfully diverted people's attention from God's kingdom, divided people , lead them to nationalism and sadly in some cases even a factor why people engage in conflicts and wars (see 2 Cor 4:4).

Rather than seeing a political leader or group of political agents as Gods instruments to bring about God's will on earth, Jehovah's Witnesses give their alligence to the kingdom as the only government that can do this.

You have presented some good points, JW. As a former Christian, I understand your viewpoint. I also see how Christians may feel an obligation to vote their conscience and exercise this freedom we have.

In fact, maybe each believer should have the freedom to vote or not to vote according to their conscience without any pressure from within their church. I think a precedent for this was set when Paul argued that it was acceptable to eat meat offered to idols but in order not offend some whose conscience forbade it they should not eat such meat in their presence.

[JehovahsWitness]

In fact, maybe each believer should have the freedom to vote or not to vote according to their conscience without any pressure from within their church.

I couldn't agree more, that said I don't think it is the churches that are most guilty of pressuring people to violate their consciences, although I do think that certain religions are so strongly affiliated with certain political parties that the members feel pressured to follow suit. But it is by far secular authorities that have not only pressured people to violate their personal consciences but have even resorted to threats, imprisonment and executions of individuals have freely chosen not to vote.

Arguably, the people that have paid more than any others when it comes to taking a stand on matters of conscience are Jehovahs Witnesses, so we know of what we speak.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to amortalman]

Hello amortalman,

Let me first say that if Christians did not engage in politics there would have been no United States of America. This nation was formed by people that wanted to freely live their faith without pressure to violate it from the king of England. But unfortunately, pressure today is increasing from other sources. As for the statement, "We are not engaging in politics we are standing for righteousness!", doesn't "standing for righteousness" also include overseeing and maintaining righteousness in the governmental process?

American government is a unique experiment among nations. The making of this nation necessitated far more than than merely escaping the king to form a democracy. Much of the structure of our government to protect freedom was molded by Christian ministers. Had it not been for the founders calling on God in time of need and receiving His supernatural help, our nation would have collapsed in step after vital step over and over! Any governing official that wants to act independently of God hates our God-given freedom.

Here is our help:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

Let's not also forget Moses' demand to Pharaoh: "Let my people go, that they may serve me (Exodus 9:1)." True freedom is freedom to freely serve God the Creator.

Government is an instrument of God to protect us from one another, criminals, rogue government, and foreign invaders. Please see Romans 13:3-5.

Doesn't the above reflect the need for godly people to govern us? Yes, Christians should engage in the governmental process. Did this help?

Earl

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 7 by Erexsaur]

Had it not been for the founders calling on God in time of need and receiving His supernatural help, our nation would have collapsed in step after vital step over and over!

The US founding fathers had supernatural aid during the American War of Independence?
Do go on please. Substantiate that.

[amortalman]

[Replying to amortalman]

Hello amortalman,

Let me first say that if Christians did not engage in politics there would have been no United States of America.

I think there would have been.

There is more than one reason why people left Europe to come to the New World. Many were fleeing crop failure, land and job shortages, rising taxes, and famine. Many came here because they saw it as the land of economic opportunity. And of course, others came seeking personal freedom or relief from political and religious persecution.

As for the statement, "We are not engaging in politics we are standing for righteousness!", doesn't "standing for righteousness" also include overseeing and maintaining righteousness in the governmental process?

The one who made that statement probably didn't see himself as engaged in politics, but yes, you are right. If by "righteousness" you mean keeping tabs on unfair and unlawful dealings and upholding honesty and integrity in government I see nothing wrong with "standing for righteousness." But if you mean that righteousness in government means pushing and promoting certain religious dogma then that's a dangerous thing to open the door to.

Besides, I can't see that righteousness has been maintained in the governmental process, can you? There have been many come and go who claimed to be Christians and corruption seems to have gotten worse, not better.

Much of the structure of our government to protect freedom was molded by Christian ministers.

But certainly not all. Many 17th and 18th century preachers were pro-slavery and many Christians owned slaves and mistreated them.

Had it not been for the founders calling on God in time of need and receiving His supernatural help, our nation would have collapsed in step after vital step over and over!

That is your perception but you make it without one iota of evidence that anyone, anywhere, has ever received any supernatural help from God or that such a God even exists.

Any governing official that wants to act independently of God hates our God-given freedom.

That is the most outlandish statement I've heard in a long time and impossible to back up!

Here is our help:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

A nice sentiment and certainly treasured words by millions but I wonder how many have thought carefully about them. It certainly isn't self-evident that all men are born equal. Many are born dirt poor, crippled, brain damaged, or under a suppressive and cruel government. If they are endowed by their Creator with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness he certainly isn't seeing to it that they have these rights.

Government is an instrument of God to protect us from one another, criminals, rogue government, and foreign invaders. Please see Romans 13:3-5.

Good governments would do that quite well without God.

Doesn't the above reflect the need for godly people to govern us? Yes, Christians should engage in the governmental process. Did this help?

Earl

Sorry, but no. What we need are people with principles, intelligence, talent, and good character. If they believe in God that's fine, if not, that's fine also.

Thank you, Earl, for your input.

[Erexsaur]

[Replying to rikuoamero]

Hello rikuoamero,

The US founding fathers had supernatural aid during the American War of Independence?
Do go on please. Substantiate that.

OK. You probably by now know about George Washington that went aside to pray for himself and the men in his army. Morals were low and many were about to abandon him. But the prayer made a big difference.

With the Continental Congress deadlocked for a long time and the participants were about to give up and go home, Benjamin Franklin gave a speech that admonished all to pray. Things began to move from that time on.

When the people of Boston found out that ships of the French Navy were on their way to destroy the city, Its citizens were instructed to fast and pray. Most of the attacking vessels were lost because of extreme weather. Only a few returned to France.

In addition to the three stories above from memory, The websites below contain material and videos I would highly recommend. They contain much information in addition to what's needed to back me up. You are probably familiar with some of it.

Book:

Prayers and Presidents by William Federer:
You may also purchase the eBook.

https://americanminute.com/products/pra ... 6274979600

The website below contains the program, "Faith in History" by its author that may also be seen on TV, I recommend it highly.

http://www.tct.tv/watch-tct/on-demand-fih

Here are two sights that contain videos I highly recommend also.

America's most pressing concern Video:

https://video.wvbs.org/program/americas ... g-concern/

The available DVD:

https://store.wvbs.org/product/americas ... ncern-dvd/

And;

The silencing of God video:

https://video.wvbs.org/program/the-silencing-of-god/

The available DVD:

https://store.wvbs.org/product/the-sile ... f-god-dvd/

These should be very helpful.



Earl