Timothy 2:12 - A Feminist Would Disagree

[SkyChief]

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Any apologists here care to take a crack at this one?

Thanks!

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 3 by StuartJ]

After all ...

Jesus wasn't a woman ...

And none of the disciples were women.

That is literally the answer told by one of my priest/teachers back when I was in school on this very topic.
Makes me wonder...are black people permitted to have authority? Asians? Native Americans? White people? Cuz just spitballin' here, but I coulda sworn Jesus and his disciples were Hebrews.

I thought that modern genetics disproved the whole idea of race...

I thought science either disproved or there's no evidence at all to support PCE...

[PinSeeker]

...I don't agree that one should be above the other in decision making.... I suspect that marriages do tend to work better when one partner is dominant

Neither do I (agree that one should be above the other in decision making). Christian leadership of the husband in marriage should not be viewed as synonymous with "above the wife" in decision-making or anything else... or "dominant" in any way. And if you read Ephesians 5 with any understanding at all, you will quickly see that the responsibility of the husband and the standard he is admonished to uphold for his wife -- to love her both in word and deed and to lay down his life for her, as Christ did for His bride, the Church -- is infinitely higher and thus, to the husband, more daunting.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 19 by StuartJ]

And peopele wonder why there are doubters of climate change. Please add the degredation of science to my list of complaints with feminism.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 14 by ytrewq]

No one claims it isn't written by people. You should watch Jordan Petersons bible lecture series abd then perhaps get an insight into the depth to be found by atheists in the Bible.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by SkyChief]

It's not just feminists that will disagree with this command.

Anyone who is not a misogynist will.

Another mysogynist message is found in 1 Corinthians 11:3 when Paul says

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."


This leaves little doubt as to who should dominate over who!

Yes, indeed. This misogyny isn't limited to the NT either. Even the highly respected 10 Commandments reveals a surprisingly deep level of misogyny:

Deuteronomy 5:21 You shall not covet your neighbors wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbors house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

The neighbor's wife is simply included in the list of his property.

[PinSeeker]

Yes, indeed. This misogyny isn't limited to the NT either. Even the highly respected 10 Commandments reveals a surprisingly deep level of misogyny:

Deuteronomy 5:21 You shall not covet your neighbors wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbors house or land, his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

The neighbor's wife is simply included in the list of his property.

That take on Deuteronomy 5:21 is quite laughable. If you want to stick with it, though, you might as well consider the husband the wife's property also, since the two are one flesh:

• "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)

Regarding 1 Corinthians 11:3:

Paul's leading off of this passage with the conjunction "but" shows that Paul has quickly moved from commendation to correction. Since a woman's head covering in first century Roman society was a sign of marriage, Paul's practical concern in this passage is not with the relationship between women and men generally but with the relationship between husband and wife.

As for the term "head," it is sometimes said that this term means "source," but in over 50 examples of the expression "person A is the head of person(s) B" found in ancient Greek literature, Person A has authority over Person(s) B in every case. Therefore it is best to understand "head" here as referring metaphorically to authority. As such, as with the authority of Christ over the church, this is not the self-centered exercise of power but leadership by the husband that takes care to serve the spiritual, emotional, and physical needs of the wife.

Further, "the head of Christ is God" indicates that within the Trinity the Father has a role of authority or leadership with respect to the Son, though they are equal in deity and attributes. Paul applies this truth about the Trinity to the relationship of husband and wife in marriage; as in the Trinity, there is equality in being and value but difference in roles.

[Tcg]

And peopele wonder why there are doubters of climate change.

I don't. Many people ignore reality in many different areas in order to hold onto the comfort denial allows.

The primary one of course is the reality that death is final. Denial of climate change is closely related.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by SkyChief]

Here's more from the OT:

Deuteronomy 22:20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young womans virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her fathers house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her fathers house. You must purge the evil from among you.

This is clearly a double standard based on misogyny. No such rule exists for non-virgin men.

[PinSeeker]

The biblical writings are NOT the "Word of God".

In your opinion. Yes, we've established that that is your opinion many, many, many times. Thank you.

[StuartJ]

The biblical writings are NOT the "Word of God".

In your opinion. Yes, we've established that that is your opinion many, many, many times. Thank you.

We have established it as FACT

Many times.

And some folks continue to claim that their version of "God" was behind the human propaganda ...

Without the beginnings of a hint of anything approaching any sort of independently verifiable evidence.

It IS my opinion that people of faith are often not to be trusted when it comes to matters of faith.

A simple proof would prove me wrong ...

But it NEVER comes