Does a mythical Jesus make a difference?

[marco]

Many claims are made for Christ, not all accepted by all Christians. He was born in Bethlehem in a stable and his birth led to the massacre of children. At his execution it is alleged Jews, as a whole, called down a curse on their descendants, and this has made Jews pariahs through history. Again, not a great legacy from Christ. So he attracts some censure.

But many think he offered good advice which, when followed, leads to a better society.


If Christ were no more than an enthusiastic preacher whom many follow in the belief he's full of wise words, does it matter that he's based on fiction? If he never rose from the dead and made no miracles, yet millions behave well because of him, does it matter he is a myth?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 30 by EarthScienceguy]

Where did Jesus " teach that he was God"?


JW

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

Every time He called Himself the son of man.

John 10:30
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.� 31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…

[shnarkle]

Many claims are made for Christ, not all accepted by all Christians. He was born in Bethlehem in a stable and his birth led to the massacre of children. At his execution it is alleged Jews, as a whole, called down a curse on their descendants, and this has made Jews pariahs through history. Again, not a great legacy from Christ. So he attracts some censure.

But many think he offered good advice which, when followed, leads to a better society.


If Christ were no more than an enthusiastic preacher whom many follow in the belief he's full of wise words, does it matter that he's based on fiction? If he never rose from the dead and made no miracles, yet millions behave well because of him, does it matter he is a myth?

Mythologies are like theories. They offer us a framework in which to discover the world around us. When those frameworks reveal inconsistencies and contradictions, then they must be abandoned, or adjusted to fit the new reality. This isn't really the correct way to proceed though. It is better to construct the myth in line with reality from the beginning. The problem is in assuming we are looking at a historical narrative when we are really looking at a myth. We can even go far astray if we assume things about the myth that simply aren't accurate.

Myths can shed much light into our understanding of history, but ultimately, they are not meant to be taken as literal historical narratives. Myths can reveal timeless truths for those who are ready to receive them. For those who aren't quite ready, they can only reveal some helpful hints for getting on with life.

If one were to look at your first paragraph from the perspective of an observant Jew steeped in the Hebrew scriptures, what jumps out immediately is the fact that the narrative is making references to Moses(massacre of children) David (born in Bethlehem),and the Day of Atonement (the cursed scapegoat). The narratives themselves are even more detailed so the comparisons are impossible not to notice. When these stories are seen in their chronological order, it becomes quite apparant that they were part of the liturgy of the early Jewish church. They all fit like a hand into a glove for the Jewish liturgical calendar.

Observant Jews are told to see themselves in the Hebrew scriptures. They believe that it is they themselves who are being freed from the bondage of Egypt, and being given God's law at Mt. Sinai. The same holds true for the early Christian communities who were still very much a part of the Jewish synagogue system. They saw themselves as a manifestation of Christ's faith in their communities. The stories don't present literal miracles, but instead are figurative representations of what was going on in those communities. They were being healed of their blindness to the truth, not being given literal sight. They were hearing the good news for the first time which is effectively no different than having one's hearing restored.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus taught that He was God

Where did Jesus " teach that he was God"?

Every time He called Himself the son of man .

How does someone referring to themselves as "Son of MAN" teach one is God?

JW

[William]

[Replying to post 34 by JehovahsWitness]

How does someone referring to themselves as "Son of MAN" teach one is God?

Panentheist understand that to be born a human is to be a Child of GOD. It is organised religion which has redefined being human as being separate from and not of GOD. That is why Jesus said we must start over, and ditch what religion has taught us about ourselves because what organised religion says about who we are, is not truth.

[dio9]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy]

I wonder how many times you have read the Gospels . There is so much more in them than just his death and resurrection. His Parables and the sermon on the Mount is about the kingdom of God . That was his message . We can build a beautiful city. The resurrection is his message which lives on in the heart of believers.

[dio9]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy]

Jesus didn't say those things. His disciples said those things.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 34 by JehovahsWitness]

How does someone referring to themselves as "Son of MAN" teach one is God?

Panentheist understand that to be born a human is to be a Child of GOD. It is organised religion which has redefined being human as being separate from and not of GOD. That is why Jesus said we must start over, and ditch what religion has taught us about ourselves because what organised religion says about who we are, is not truth.

I agree with your post to a certain degree. I don't think your understanding is confined to just panentheists though. The term "sons of God" is pertinent as well. When God begets sons, they are referred to as "sons of God". We have not just Christ, but all who are "begotten of the spirit" (usually translated as "born again"). "That which is flesh is flesh, that which is spirit is spirit."

Christ pointed out that "the spirit breathes where he will, you hear the sound of his voice, but you know not where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit".

[marco]

They were being healed of their blindness to the truth, not being given literal sight. They were hearing the good news for the first time which is effectively no different than having one's hearing restored.

I can readily accept this explanation of reported miracles. Jesus brought life after his death; a billion minds believe though Jesus was buried. The watery faith of his simple disciples could be walked across and transformed. And so on.
In the words:

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" there is much more required of us than adjusting a myth to suit our style.

But a I agree we can take everything relating to Christ and make it metaphor. I'm not sure we are left with any more than the actor John Wayne.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 34 by JehovahsWitness]

How does someone referring to themselves as "Son of MAN" teach one is God?

You did not ask about one God but simply Jesus teaching he was God. The phrase "Son of Man" comes from Daniel 7

13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

All nations were worshiping the Son of Man.

If you are wondering how this teaches that God is one. We have to add some passages to this.

Exodus 20:4-6

4You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind, or an image of anything in the heavens above, on the earth beneath, or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments.…

Here God tells Israel that they are to worship nothing but Him. But God allows the worship of the Son of Man.


The reason why this is the case comes from Deuteronomy 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Either the Ancient of days and the Son of Man are one or God will have to apologize to Israel for lying to them.