New Covenant

tryme · Post by **tryme** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 pm

This question comes from a reading of Jeremiah 31 , specifically verse 34 that says

â€˜They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, â€˜Know the Lord,â€™ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,â€�

I was always taught that this was speaking of the new covenant especially the quote I will write my laws on their heartâ€� but this all sounds to me a lot like the millennial kingdom in that No one has to even be taught any religion, and everyone is just born believes and knows. What do you think?

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Tue May 14, 2019 9:39 pm

Checkpoint wrote: The Bible is indeed about us...

Well that's not what Jesus said. He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.

Checkpoint wrote: ...we are the recipients of God's great salvation in Jesus; there's a three-part harmony.

Well, God's salvation in Jesus is offered to us, sure. It's offered to everyone, of course, and given to many. But it's not about us. We needn't debate that; I'll agree with you in a way, that we are represented, somehow, throughout the Bible, as recipients of God's grace and Jesus. Three examples:

* Jesus is represented by the Ark, and we are represented by Noah's family
* Jesus is represented by Joseph (Genesis), who saves Israel from the famine, and we are represented by the Israelites
* Jesus is represented by the manna in the desert (indeed, He is the bread of life), and we are represented by the Israelites

In the New Testament, there is no need for types and shadows anymore, because God has spoken to us by His Son (Hebrews 1). But it's still all about Jesus.

Checkpoint wrote: He is therefore quite explicit concerning who we are and what will happen to us.

Sure. See above. It's still primarily about His salvation and redemption in Christ Jesus.

Checkpoint wrote: Our opinions mean nothing, and change nothing. The God who changes not says what He means and means what He says.

Well, I disagree that our opinions mean nothing. But other than that, sure.

Post by **Tcg** » Tue May 14, 2019 11:21 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Well that's not what Jesus said. He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.

If Jesus did indeed say that, he was gravely mistaken. The Old Testament mentions nothing about him. Not a word.

Sure, Christians have tried to shoehorn him into those more ancient stories, but unlike Cinderella, the shoe doesn't fit.

Tcg

myth-one.com · Post by **myth-one.com** » Tue May 14, 2019 11:24 pm

The Bible states that there are two type of living things -- those with physical bodies and those with spiritual bodies:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

PinSeeker contradicted this when he or she wrote:Not "two beings," but one being with two natures.

The Bible is discussing real type of living beings or body types in the above verse -- not simply "natures."

Nature: the innate or essential qualities or character of a person or animal.

The Bible is not referring to the "natures" of beings in First Corinthians 15:44!

There are people with many "natures."

They're called schizophrenics, and they have one natural, real, flesh and blood, mortal body.

====================================================

PinSeeker wrote:For us Christians, spiritual rebirth has already occurred...

Can you move as the wind?

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

If not, you have not been born again of the Spirit.

Christians are presently joint-heirs with Jesus Christ unto salvation under the New Testament Covenant:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

And when you are born again of the Spirit, you will no longer have any need for a natural, physical body!

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Wed May 15, 2019 12:08 am

Tcg wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
Well that's not what Jesus said. He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.

If Jesus did indeed say that, he was gravely mistaken. The Old Testament mentions nothing about him. Not a word.

Sure, Christians have tried to shoehorn him into those more ancient stories, but unlike Cinderella, the shoe doesn't fit.

Tcg

Not a word, huh?

The OT says many words about him without using his name, Jesus.

He included this truth in his message.

The shoe fits.

Post by **Tcg** » Wed May 15, 2019 12:13 am

Checkpoint wrote:
Tcg wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
Well that's not what Jesus said. He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.

If Jesus did indeed say that, he was gravely mistaken. The Old Testament mentions nothing about him. Not a word.

Sure, Christians have tried to shoehorn him into those more ancient stories, but unlike Cinderella, the shoe doesn't fit.

Tcg
Not a word, huh?

The OT says many words about him without using his name, Jesus.

Exactly, not a word that mentions Jesus. Thanks for supporting my point.

Tcg

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Wed May 15, 2019 12:51 am

[Replying to post 169 by PinSeeker]

He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.

Where is that found?

Well, I disagree that our opinions mean nothing.

What that statement was intended to convey was this:

If our opinion is correct, it does not add to the Word or take away from it, but simply confirms it.

If our opinion is incorrect, it will be because it adds to and/or takes away from the Word, but only in itself, not to the Word itself.

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Wed May 15, 2019 3:38 pm

myth-one.com wrote: The Bible is discussing real type of living beings or body types in the above verse -- not simply "natures."

Oh, but it is. I wouldn't say "simply" there, but "natures," certainly. We disagree. Can you not just say, "Okay, I see. Fine." and just let this go?

myth-one.com wrote: Nature: the innate or essential qualities or character of a person or animal.

This, I agree with.

myth-one.com wrote: The Bible is not referring to the "natures" of beings in First Corinthians 15:44!

Oh, but it is. We disagree. Can you not just say, "Okay, I see. Fine." and just let this go?

myth-one.com wrote: There are people with many "natures." They're called schizophrenics, and they have one natural, real, flesh and blood, mortal body.

Um, myth-one, schizophrenics have multiple personalities. Wow.

myth-one.com wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:For us Christians, spiritual rebirth has already occurred...
Can you move as the wind?
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

If not, you have not been born again of the Spirit.

LOL! I had a little bit of a hard time understanding what sense this question makes at all. Then it dawned on me... This verse is not talking about me, or any other person, myth-one. Do you not see "Spirit" capitalized in that verse? It's talking about the Holy Spirit. He moves as the wind, and we don't see where He comes from or Where He goes. As it concerns us, this verse is right in line with Romans 9:16, in that our salvation depends not on ourselves and our choosing, but upon God's mercy, which only depends on His sovereign will.
Christians are presently joint-heirs with Jesus Christ unto salvation under the New Testament Covenant:

myth-one.com wrote:
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)
And when you are born again of the Spirit, you will no longer have any need for a natural, physical body!

Lordy. Okay, myth-one. We disagree. Please let it go. Please. Wow.

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 pm

Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 169 by PinSeeker]

He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.
Where is that found?

Several places, really:

* Jesus said it Himself in John 5:46.

* We hear it indirectly from the two unnamed men who Jesus spoke to after His resurrection on the road to Emmaus marvel at the conversation together in Luke 24:32.

* We hear it again from Paul in Acts 26:22.

* We hear it again from Luke in talking about Paul in Acts 28:23.

Checkpoint wrote:
Well, I disagree that our opinions mean nothing.
What that statement was intended to convey was this:

If our opinion is correct, it does not add to the Word or take away from it, but simply confirms it.

Okay, but still -- well, I'm not debating your point, here, as if I think it's incorrect, but God's Word does not need our confirmation.

Which you agree with, I'm sure. But our opinions are a result of our understandings, and in that sense, they matter too when we relate to others said opinions. Which I'm sure you agree with also.

Checkpoint wrote: If our opinion is incorrect, it will be because it adds to and/or takes away from the Word, but only in itself, not to the Word itself.

Agreed, but if/when others are hearing our opinions -- especially those trying to understand God's Word -- those opinions are very, very important. But even so, having said that, if God's going to change someone's heart based on something we tell them, He can certainly overcome -- and will overcome -- us not being entirely correct. But our opinions are still important. I think you'll agree with this, too.

myth-one.com · Post by **myth-one.com** » Wed May 15, 2019 5:24 pm

myth-one.com wrote:And when you are born again of the Spirit, you will no longer have any need for a natural, physical body!

PinSeeker wrote:Lordy. Okay, myth-one. We disagree. Please let it go. Please. Wow.

The "Spirit" in the verse below is God:

John 4:24 wrote:God is a Spirit:

God is all knowing, all seeing, all powerful, etc, etc, etc.

All this and all that.

Do you believe God is physical in any way?

Since you force the physical body on all humans (believers and nonbelievers) for all eternity, it would seem that you might be able to point out one benefit from such an act.

Is God somehow missing anything by not having a physical body?

Can you identify one benefit which a natural body has over a spiritual body?

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Wed May 15, 2019 10:08 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 169 by PinSeeker]

He said all of Scripture is about Him. And it is.
Where is that found?
Several places, really:

* Jesus said it Himself in John 5:46.

* We hear it indirectly from the two unnamed men who Jesus spoke to after His resurrection on the road to Emmaus marvel at the conversation together in Luke 24:32.

* We hear it again from Paul in Acts 26:22.

* We hear it again from Luke in talking about Paul in Acts 28:23.

Not at all.

In John 5 Jesus does not say or mean "all of scripture" or "all of Moses", but only that "he wrote about me".

He was, with little doubt, referring to the prophecy Moses spoke in Deuteronomy 18, the one also mentioned in those Acts passages you cited.

(and perhaps Genesis 3:15 as well).