"Easter", as remembered and celebrated today.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:22 pm

I do not refer to its name but to the events that are believed to have happened 2000 years ago, and their significance.

Where do you stand, and why?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue May 14, 2019 12:59 am

Continued from post 49 by JehovahsWitness

brianbbs67 wrote: None of the temple or priest law is able to be carried ... no trip to Temple as their is none.

And so neither you nor anyone today can celebrate the festival of unleaven bread. Period.

The law is quite clear on how the festival was to be observed, Jewish males had to travel to the Temple at Jerusalem and the High Priest had to make a sacrifice. There was no provision in the law to change this and Jesus said nothing in the law could be changed. In view of this whatever modified attempts you make, call it what you like, even a festval to God if your imagination so wishes but you are not doing what Jesus told the Jews before his death to do, because you can't.

To illustrate: If you can't ride a horse because you haven't got a horse, (or a bad man came along and shot your horse) that's sad, but no matter how sad, you don't get to ride a bike and call it riding a horse. The most accurate description of what you would be doing is riding a bike and pretending you are riding a horse

In the same way, nobody can celebrate the festival of unleaven bread because they don't have a temple or a high priest. However, anyone with a loaf of bread and an imagination is free to pretend they are.

RELATED POSTS

Are Christians under obligation to keep the Laws of Moses?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 176#918176

Was the Mosaic law given to all the nation's?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 043#964043

Did God give any laws prior to the Mosaic Law covenant?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 874#843874

.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue May 14, 2019 1:37 am

brianbbs67 wrote:.. Paul, all kept the feasts and holy days of God.

All the festivals? Please feel free to try and prove this with scripture.

JW

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue May 14, 2019 8:54 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
What did Christ tell us to do? Chiefly follow the law.
Who do you mean by "us" are you Jewish? The Mosaic law was given only and exclusively to the descendants of Abraham, and Jesus mission was only to be to minister to these people, so unless you are a Jew there is no "us" under the law, there is only "them". Jesus never instructed a single non Jew to follow the law.

PSALMS 147:19- 20

He declares his word to Jacob, His regulations and judgments to Israel. He has not done so with any other nation
EXODUS 31:17

".... It is a lasting covenant. It is an enduring sign between me and the people of Israel" - NWT

brianbbs67 wrote:
Christ most certainly told. emphatically. His disciples to follow the law and commandments
That is because most of his disciples were Jews. Before the law was "fulfilled" it was right and proper that Jews should observe Jewish law and keep the festivals, but Jesus was very clear, that day would come when worship at the temple would come to an end.

JOHN 4: 20

"The hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father." - NWT

JW

We are grafted into Isreal, Not Rome. We are sojourning with God's chosen people and becoming one with them. "The same law will apply to the Isrealite and the stranger who sojourns with you."

As demonstrated in Eph. 2:11-

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

A Temple in the Lord
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Before you answer too quickly, the "ordinances against us" were the penalty for breaking the law. Placed on the outside of the ark in a scroll.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue May 14, 2019 9:02 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: I celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread, not Easter or Christmas as a religious or holy day.

So do you celebrate Easter or Christmas as a secular celebration, participating on a non-religious level?

No, I do not participate in either, anymore. They are created by man and have very pagan roots, as you knowbeing a JW.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue May 14, 2019 9:08 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: Continued from post 49 by JehovahsWitness

brianbbs67 wrote: None of the temple or priest law is able to be carried ... no trip to Temple as their is none.
And so neither you nor anyone today can celebrate the festival of unleaven bread. Period.

The law is quite clear on how the festival was to be observed, Jewish males had to travel to the Temple at Jerusalem and the High Priest had to make a sacrifice. There was no provision in the law to change this and Jesus said nothing in the law could be changed. In view of this whatever modified attempts you make, call it what you like, even a festval to God if your imagination so wishes but you are not doing what Jesus told the Jews before his death to do, because you can't.

To illustrate: If you can't ride a horse because you haven't got a horse, (or a bad man came along and shot your horse) that's sad, but no matter how sad, you don't get to ride a bike and call it riding a horse. The most accurate description of what you would be doing is riding a bike and pretending you are riding a horse
In the same way, nobody can celebrate the festival of unleaven bread because they don't have a temple or a high priest. However, anyone with a loaf of bread and an imagination is free to pretend they are.

RELATED POSTS

Are Christians under obligation to keep the Laws of Moses?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 176#918176

Was the Mosaic law given to all the nation's?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 043#964043

Did God give any laws prior to the Mosaic Law covenant?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 874#843874

.

What did Isreal do when in captivity or since until today?

They followed as much as they could dictated by their situation. If we can't fully celebrate God's Holy days, we shouldn't memorialize them as best as we can according to scripture?

Example: I can't afford or am not allowed by my government to fully fill my gas tank to get to work.

Should I :

A: Never fill my tank
or

B: Fill it as much as I can legally , so that I may work and support myself and family??

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue May 14, 2019 9:13 pm

Checkpoint wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
Sojournerofthearth wrote: [Replying to post 35 by Checkpoint]

just brush it off... God will understand...

Take heed to yourself, that you be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before you; and that you inquire not after their gods, saying, how did these nations serve their gods?

Whatever things I command you, observe to do it: you shall not add to it or diminish from it.

and there's the little thing that none of the disciples observed Easter... they observed Passover.
That's my whole point. Why do we not follow Christ as all the disciples and the second and third generation did? Even Paul did this. The Way was a sect of Judaism. We don't follow Christ as Christ instructed. Why does everyone ignore this, and quote Paul, against his meaning? Is Paul greater than Christ? I celebrate the Feast of unleaven Bread, not Easter or Christmas as a religious or holy day. Because they are not religious or holy. They are traditions of men. Anyone remember what Christ said the traditions of men did to God's law?
Many of us ask "why" too, and add "if only".

However, your point as expressed in this post, raises its own questions.

Christ's instructions about remembering him are being followed, aren't they?

How do we "quote Paul, against his meaning"?

You see a need you feel strongly about, and live accordingly.

Good for you.

Expressing your concerns will not move the mountain, however, but faith in action can make possible what seems impossible.

Do you have any ideas or ways you think may begin to turn things to what should and could be?

Yes , we should do as Christ requested, and as often as we gather to eat and drink and have fellowship do as he requested of his disciples.

If we had the faith of a mustard seed, we could move that mountain.

God will begin to gather Isreal from the 4 corners of the earth. I believe this has started. That will finish the job. And all will worship Him and keep His Appointed times(Mo'edim).

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue May 14, 2019 11:49 pm

brianbbs67 wrote:

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
....the "ordinances against us" were the penalty for breaking the law.

The scripture you quoted doesnt say the penalty was abolished, it says "having abolished....the law..." What do you think is being communicated by the expression "the law of commandments was {quote} "abolished" ?

JW

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed May 15, 2019 12:14 am

brianbbs67 wrote:
What did Isreal do when in captivity ...?

Whatever they did the Jews in captivity, they did not keep the festival because they had no temple and Jerusalem had been destroyed.

As for how much of the law they strove to keep, we dont know for sure, Daniel and his companions certainty respected dietry restrictions and it's reasonable to assume they kept as much of the law as was possible, but keeping the three temple based festivals was impossible because they did not have a temple. Since God forgave the repentant Jews and eventually permitted to go home, it seems that he did not hold the years when they did not keep the festival's against them.

As for what they individually did on festival weeks we just dont know. If they refrained from eating leaven bread is anyones guess, but what we do know for sure is whatever they did it wasnt celebrating the festival as prescribed. They knew the law well enough to know that that was a festival ONLY to be held in Jerusalem. The law required that Jewish males were to travel to Jerusalem. There was absolutely no provision for them to stay at home to do it. It was illegal to sacrifice animals outside Jerusalem, only the Priests were authorized to make such sacrifices to God and that only at the temple.

In short the the Temple festivals were the part of the "tank" they could not "fill". Part of their repentance was to recognize that they had lost that privilege not to pretend they still had it. They could do other things, Daniel proved they could still be faithful in other areas but faithfulness would not entail "changing the word of God" as some that pretend they are keeping the festival today do.

JW

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Wed May 15, 2019 1:58 am

[Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

Do you have any ideas or ways you think may begin to turn things to what should and could be?

Yes , we should do as Christ requested, and as often as we gather to eat and drink and have fellowship do as he requested of his disciples.

That's a good start.

Here is a relevant song for you.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed May 15, 2019 3:44 pm

[Replying to post 55 by brianbbs67]

God has already fulfilled the scriptures about the Jews being gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. That was a prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures that foretold their returning from Babylon and everywhere else that they had been dispersed to after the conquering of Israel by Babylon. There is no more literal fulfillment of that prophecy.