Genesis - The Beginning.

[seve]

Energy doesn't appear physically except when it's changed into physical matter. It took scientists thousands of years before Albert Einstein confirmed God's Holy Word with his theory of relativity.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WorldS (multiverse) were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Einstein learned the SAME thing. He learned that matter and energy were the same. In order to make matter, it takes energy to produce matter in physical form. Then, you will have things which are seen, but made from things which do not appear to the eye.

WHERE did the energy to make 3 Universes or Multiverse come from, you might ask. Below is the answer for it tells us where God lives:

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Can any one here who believe that Genesis is only figurative and not LITERAL tells us HOW Moses or other ancient men, who lived thousands of years before science, authored the the Book of Genesis... and knew that (theory of relativity)? Of course not. It took men thousands of years before Albert Einstein discovered that Scientific Fact, correct?

It's PROOF of our Awesome God

[seve]

There are many things beyond my understanding. The story of Saul's encounter with heaven does not require microscopic investigation: it makes a clear statement. If God wished me to accept this, then the power he has given me to solve rather awkward differential equations would be enhanced with further vision. Alas, he has not, but apparently he has been more generous to you, That is a divine kindness I can only envy.

The Roman world of Paul's time is fascinating and many of the writers have given us glimpses of brilliance, sucha as Lucretius (De rerum natura) who tells us anachronistically of "altoms and the void." Paul was a pious individual, consumed with the idea that he was singularly chosen to preach God's word. Many modern people have likewise seen themselves as servants of the deity. When people knock at my door and promise marvels, I ask for identification. To your credit you offer lines from the Bible, but sadly these open themselves to many interpretations, apart from a literal one. I would want to know in what way we can make a choice between yours and any of the others.

I am not a biologist, nor do I have the enthusiasm of Dawkins to defend the Theory of Evolution, but many have commended it. It has the advantage, over biblical verses, of being written not in poetry, but in rather plain language. It may need some amendments, being still a theory.

Thanks for your proffered assistance. Go well.

Dear Marco,

That's correct. Paul was SINGULARLY chosen by Jesus to preach His Gospel, specially, to the Gentiles.

Below are Biblical Prooftexts to support that view with regards to Apostle Paul being the Ordained Minister especially to the Gentiles - for your reference and study.

The Prophecy: 

Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow. Isa 41:2 

I have raised up one from the north (Tarsus), and he shall come: from the rising of the sun (noon time) shall he call upon my name(Who art thou Lord?): and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay (thorn in the flesh - messenger of satan) v26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous (Saul who persecuted Christians is righteous)? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words. Isa 41:25-26 

Calling a ravenous bird from the east (Saul, Saul), the man that executeth my counsel (Steven) from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it (to be minister for the Gentiles), I will also do it Isa 46:11 

The Fulfillment of the Prophecy: 

Acts 26:13-18 
At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.v14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. v15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord (calling his name)? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest .v16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; v17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, v18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. 

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2Cr 12:7 

Our God is an Awesome God.


PS: Look well in the East, my friend.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 27 by seve]

They did NOT consider God's Truth when they made fools of themselves with their unsupportable Theory, and now it's time for their Lies to be exposed.

Humans did NOT evolve from Apes and there is NO evidence which can stand when measured against God's Truth.

Why would any scientist consider "God's Truth" when evaluating evidence and observations and seeking explanations consistent with known scientific principles? Gods are human concepts and there are many of them, often incompatible with each other (eg. if Hinduism is correct, then Christianity cannot be correct).

Gods are imaginary entities, and there is no evidence showing that they actually exist in any form. Science works from empirical evidence and explains nature far more consistently and accurately than any religion ever has or ever will.

Humans did evolve from a great ape ancestor, whether you want to believe it or not. That is what the evidence shows, and genetics work proves it beyond any doubt. "God's truth" does not factor in at all, because using some preconceived notion like that would only contaminate the scientific method and a basic principle of science to follow the evidence where it leads without preconceived ideas on what the answer should be based on some religious bias.

If you think any scientist should consider "God's truth" when doing their work you don't understand how science works. Nothing in science is, or should be, measured against any religious, man-made, god concepts and what those suggest or imply. That would defeat the entire scientific enterprise, and no one has yet to succeed in demonstrating that any of the thousands of gods that humans have invented are real. It would be a sad day if science ever got to the point where gods of any kind were considered as part of the scientific discovery process.

Bash evolution all you like ... you have no ability to change the fact that it has been shown to be a valid theory for how life diversified on this planet, including the evolution of humans. There are thousands of scientific papers, books, etc. available for you to learn how evolution works and the current thinking on the subject within the scientific community. But you are blinded by religious beliefs that require you to reject it and ignore the evidence, because you have to believe that humans are special creatures because your favorite holy book says so. Unfortunately the holy book is wrong, and science is right, and you are on the wrong side of the facts.

[seve]

Noah's flood exposes the weakness, the Achilles Heel of the False Theory of Evolution. Some Godless Evols have taken the Truth of MicroEvolution or changes within His kinds, and changed it into the unsupported, speculative LIE that God used evolution to Create. Not so, and God's Holy Word refutes such an ignorant idea.

Noah's Flood shows that Noah and his family came into our 2nd Heaven, from the 1st Heaven, the world of Adam, which was totally "dissolved" in the Flood. This happened some 11k years ago and Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to Noah's arrival in the mountains of Ararat, in Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human Civilization.

Without the Flood, we might be stuck with the stupid idea that we evolved from other animals, but the Flood shows that Humanity on our Earth, came from another world. Humans were made long BEFORE any other living creature. Genesis 2:4-7 That's God's Truth, which agrees in EVERY way with EVERY discovery of Science and History.

The reason Humans have the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes is because today's Humans ARE the children of Noah's descendants and the prehistoric people who were already here and had been for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived.

That is WHY we have the Human intelligence which ONLY Adam and God had, Gen 3:22 but we also contain the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes within our Human bloodstreams. This does NOT mean that we evolved from them but that our Human blood was contaminated by them. It cost Humans 90% of our lifetimes because of this.

One thing God's Truth DISAGREES with is the False ToE, which is nothing but a Lie of Godless men who are afraid to be righteously judged for their evil deeds, so they made up an incomplete, untrue, False assumption, and called it the ToE. They did NOT consider God's Truth when they made fools of themselves with their unsupportable Theory, and now it's time for their Lies to be exposed.

Humans did NOT evolve from Apes and there is NO evidence which can stand when measured against God's Truth. Want to try to support the man-made, error filled, Theory of Evolution? I don't believe ANY of you can?

Evols, list down your so called evidence here - Apes evolving into Human - IF you have any:

[Replying to post 32 by DrNoGods]

Dear DrNoGods,

No evidence to present yet? Come on now.... NOTHING?.... REALLY? ..... Oh.. well, I thought so.

Anyway, for your additional learning - read below. Don't worry, it's free of charge.

Apes and their descendants don't grow crops. This was true until the last less than 1% of the time since science teaches that "humans" diverged from Chimps, which was 6 Million years ago and these "humans" NEVER grew a crop. When you pin them down, they say that humans didn't become "fully human" until 200k years ago.

Of course they then cannot explain WHY it took some 190k years before these "humans" grew themselves something to eat. The answer is simple. Prehistoric people, who descended from animals, did NOT have the Human intelligence which ONLY the descendants of Adam, the first Human, was made with. Adam's descendants arrived on the Ark and human farming began some 11k years ago.

Since prehistoric people began to diverge from Chimps some 6 Million years ago, this means that for more than 99% of the time since then, prehistoric people NEVER planted a crop, built a house, or had ANY of the traits of modern Humans. This is because they were NOT humans since they did NOT descend from Adam. Only the descendants of Adam are Humans.

Science agrees that prehistoric mankind evolved from the water along with every other living creature, since living cells cannot live without liquid water. Adam was a Special Creation, made to be an Eternal Being like God. Adam was FIRST made Gen 2:4-7 and had an intelligence like God's, Gen 3:22 which is superior to any other living creature, since Humans are destined to have dominion over Heaven. Gen 1:28

Prehistoric man was NOT made with an intelligence level like God's but was made to be compatible with Humans sexually. This happened on the 5th Day when God (Elohim-The Trinity) created and brought forth from the water EVERY living creature that moves EXCEPT Humans, since Adam had lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE these creatures were made from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 33 by seve]

Apes and their descendants don't grow crops. This was true until the last less than 1% of the time since science teaches that "humans" diverged from Chimps, which was 6 Million years ago and these "humans" NEVER grew a crop. When you pin them down, they say that humans didn't become "fully human" until 200k years ago.

You have a very poor understanding of human evolution. Humans did not evolve from chimps. Chimps and humans share a common ancestor that was not either a chimp or a human. Bipedal apes appeared well before the first member of the genus Homo (Homo habilis) appeared some 2.5 million years ago. The path from the earliest Homo members to anatomically modern humans was very "bushy" and branched off into many dead ends. There are many members of genus Homo between habilis and sapien (modern humans), as in this Wikipedia list (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution ... the "H" in front is for Homo):

H. gautengensis
H. habilis
H. rudolfensis
H. floresiensis
H. ergaster
H. erectus
H. e. georgicus
H. cepranensis
H. antecessor
H. heidelbergensis
H. rhodesiensis
H. naledi
H. helmei
H. neanderthalensis
H. sapiens
H. s. idaltu
H. s. sapiens (early)
H. s. sapiens (modern)

The oldest modern humans were recently found in Morroco and dated to about 300,000 years ago:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/06 ... nd-morocco

The Neolithic revolution (growing of crops) started at different times in different parts of the world, but this started after all but Homo sapiens had died out (possibly there were some Denisovans still around). But it was sometime around 12,000 years ago that it started:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_Revolution

The people that first domesticated plants and animals were fully modern humans, not apes. The reason it "took so long" for these humans to grow something to eat as you put it, is the same reason for any other technological development to take place. Someone has to think of it, then implement it, and then it happens. We can see from cave paintings and other artifacts that 30,000 - 40,000 years ago, long before crops were grown, that humans had intelligence far beyond the level of apes. A growing and ever more complex brain is the primary evolutionary advantage of humans, and that intelligence level did not just suddenly appear. It developed over long periods of time as evidenced by the growth in brain size from habilis to sapien, and the greater fraction of neocortex over time. Homo erectus hunted large animals, made spears, cooked food, and showed far more intelligence than any other animal ... well over 1 million years ago.

Adam's descendants arrived on the Ark and human farming began

The mythical Noah's flood can be dated from biblical chronology to about 4,300 years ago. This is about 8,000 years after farming began.

... this means that for more than 99% of the time since then, prehistoric people NEVER planted a crop, built a house, or had ANY of the traits of modern Humans. This is because they were NOT humans since they did NOT descend from Adam. Only the descendants of Adam are Humans.

Again, you have a completely wrong understanding of how human evolution actually did happen. It doesn't matter when the first crop was planted, just like it doesn't matter when the first airplane flew. Technological developments happen when knowledge advances to the point that they are possible. The Adam of the bible was not a real person (nor was Eve). These are mythical people from a creation story and did not exist as real people, literally, as described in the bible. Modern humans did not descend from Adam ... they descended from earlier members of the genus Homo. Genetics has proven this, and contradict these old religious creation myths and other stories.

Adam was a Special Creation, made to be an Eternal Being like God. Adam was FIRST made Gen 2:4-7 and had an intelligence like God's, Gen 3:22 which is superior to any other living creature, since Humans are destined to have dominion over Heaven. Gen 1:28.

Adam is a mythical being who did not exist as a real person. You cannot quote bible verses as support for any claim, so those can be ignored for the purpose of debate. The bible is not a scientific reference text.

Prehistoric man was NOT made with an intelligence level like God's but was made to be compatible with Humans sexually. This happened on the 5th Day when God (Elohim-The Trinity) created and brought forth from the water EVERY living creature that moves EXCEPT Humans, since Adam had lived with Jesus for Billions of years BEFORE these creatures were made from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

More bible verse quoting, so can be ignored. "Prehistoric" man is a meaningless term. Prehistoric is generally referred to as the period before writing systems were developed some 5500 years ago. Anatomically modern humans had been around for 200,000 to 300,000 years before that, and they interbred with Neanderthals and others (eg. Denivosans). The creation myth of the bible is not literally true, and does not describe how humans developed and evolved over time. It is fiction.

[OnceConvinced]

One thing God's Truth DISAGREES with is the False ToE, which is nothing but a Lie of Godless men who are afraid to be righteously judged for their evil deeds, so they made up an incomplete, untrue, False assumption, and called it the ToE. They did NOT consider God's Truth when they made fools of themselves with their unsupportable Theory, and now it's time for their Lies to be exposed.

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[seve]

[Replying to post 34 by DrNoGods]

DrNoGods,

Once again, read your history, there were NO Humans, on this present earth, until Noah arrived on this "Planet of Apes", which is confirmed by the fact that there are NO other Human Civilizations, older than Mesopotamia , just South of the mountains of Ararat some 11k years ago.

What you have is evidence of the Prehistoric Mankind diverging from chimps at that time. The prehistoric Mankind evolved from the water beginning 3.7 Billion years ago. Humans can trace our beginning to some 13+ Billion years ago. The Prehistoric Mankind were NOT Human. It's just one of the glaring mistakes of the ToE. 

How did the scientist measure the difference in intelligence when animal evolved into Human? They cannot. They can only assume, from fossils, that the physical is about the same as our physical. They CANNOT measure When and How we obtained our Human Intelligence, which is the difference between us and innocent animals. This means that they do Not know when we inherited our Human Intelligence. 

One cannot always measure that which is not seen. The ability to know good and evil, which is what makes us Human, MUST be inherited from Adam, the first Human who acquired the knowledge of good and evil. The innocent ancient people, who were here when Noah arrived, evolved into today's Humans, when their population married the descendants of Adam. We are the result - Gen.6. 

Today's Humans contain the DNA of Mt Eve, a Prehistoric Woman who lived some 200K years ago - depending who's doing the dating. We also contain the ability to know good and evil, and we have a higher intelligence than Any other Creature. 

How did we get this higher Intelligence? and When? History is clear. We began to build Human Civilization just AFTER Noah arrived, just south of the mountains of Ararat some 11K years ago. Scripture and History agree, but ToE remains ignorant of the Truth. 

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

P.S. This thread is about Religion and Science and the Topic is Genesis - The Beginning .... and the discussion can be based on SCRIPTURE, Science or History. Therefore, you are in ERROR on your flawed assumption - contrary to your view and continued pleading.

TRY AGAIN?

[seve]

Noah's flood exposes the weakness, the Achilles Heel of the False Theory of Evolution. Some Godless Evols have taken the Truth of MicroEvolution or changes within His kinds, and changed it into the unsupported, speculative LIE that God used evolution to Create. Not so, and God's Holy Word refutes such an ignorant idea.

Noah's Flood shows that Noah and his family came into our 2nd Heaven, from the 1st Heaven, the world of Adam, which was totally "dissolved" in the Flood. This happened some 11k years ago and Human civilization, on this Planet, can be traced to Noah's arrival in the mountains of Ararat, in Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human Civilization.

Without the Flood, we might be stuck with the stupid idea that we evolved from other animals, but the Flood shows that Humanity on our Earth, came from another world. Humans were made long BEFORE any other living creature. Genesis 2:4-7 That's God's Truth, which agrees in EVERY way with EVERY discovery of Science and History.

The reason Humans have the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes is because today's Humans ARE the children of Noah's descendants and the prehistoric people who were already here and had been for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived.

That is WHY we have the Human intelligence which ONLY Adam and God had, Gen 3:22 but we also contain the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes within our Human bloodstreams. This does NOT mean that we evolved from them but that our Human blood was contaminated by them. It cost Humans 90% of our lifetimes because of this.

One thing God's Truth DISAGREES with is the False ToE, which is nothing but a Lie of Godless men who are afraid to be righteously judged for their evil deeds, so they made up an incomplete, untrue, False assumption, and called it the ToE. They did NOT consider God's Truth when they made fools of themselves with their unsupportable Theory, and now it's time for their Lies to be exposed.

Humans did NOT evolve from Apes and there is NO evidence which can stand when measured against God's Truth. Want to try to support the man-made, error filled, Theory of Evolution? I don't believe ANY of you can?

Evols, list down your so called evidence here - Apes evolving into Human - IF you have any:
Sourced:

Dear Readers,

In order to understand Noah's Global Flood, one must understand the following:

The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our earth, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water below and above it... into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 - while our own present world is surrounded by Star Dust. Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present Earth, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water. Isa 24:19

This Earth, the Earth of Adam, was considered FLAT by the Ancient Hebrew Perspective. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 .... while our earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while our present World has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

Here are some model images of Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Flat Earth -simili - for reference only - Adam's firmament of heaven - surrounded by waters below and above it .......
Ancient Hebrew Cosmology...

The first Heaven or world was in the midst of water below and above it and later destroyed in a Flood.
The second Heaven is our present world - surrounded by Star Dust - which is scheduled to be burned.
The third Heaven or world is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).

The first heaven was made the SECOND Day. Genesis 1:6-8
The second heaven was made the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4
The third heaven was is also made on the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4

Therefore, we live in the world of a Multiverse

God Bless

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 36 by seve]

Once again, read your history, there were NO Humans, on this present earth, until Noah arrived on this "Planet of Apes", which is confirmed by the fact that there are NO other Human Civilizations, older than Mesopotamia , just South of the mountains of Ararat some 11k years ago.

This is complete nonsense. Who do you think made the cave paintings and various figurines dated to 30,000 years ago and more if there were no humans? The evolutionary path from apes to earlier members of the genus Homo to modern Homo sapiens has been pretty well mapped out, and it did not happen (at all) as you are describing. You need to spend some time in a library, or on Wikipedia, catching up with what modern science as shown in regards to human evolution and stop making up stuff that isn't even consistent with the bible that you keep quoting verses from. Virtually nothing you said in this post is consistent with science, or bible tales.

The prehistoric Mankind evolved from the water beginning 3.7 Billion years ago. Humans can trace our beginning to some 13+ Billion years ago. The Prehistoric Mankind were NOT Human. It's just one of the glaring mistakes of the ToE.

What is glaring here is your complete misunderstanding of this entire subject. First, the planet we live on didn't exist prior to about 4.6 billion years ago. And what you are referring to as "Prehistoric Mankind", presumably, are the earlier members of genus Homo. Modern humans (ie. Homo sapiens) didn't just appear from nothing. That is the religious myth of Genesis. What science (ie. ToE) tells us is that modern humans evolved over a long period of time from a great ape ancestor, through many intermediates over several million years. This is not a "glaring mistake" of ToE ... it is a correct description of how modern humans actually did come to be, that is consistent with the fossil record and genetics. What you are making up is not consistent with either science or religion.

How did the scientist measure the difference in intelligence when animal evolved into Human? They cannot. They can only assume, from fossils, that the physical is about the same as our physical. They CANNOT measure When and How we obtained our Human Intelligence, which is the difference between us and innocent animals. This means that they do Not know when we inherited our Human Intelligence.

Human intelligence has advanced throughout the entire evolutionary path that ToE describes. It did not just suddenly appear out of nowhere. Brain size, and structural complexity, increased throughout the process and the modern human brain is the result of that process. We can measure brain size over time (in humans and other animals), and we can see the results of early Homo member activity in the artifacts they left behind. You're speaking as if science is completely in the dark on how human intelligence evolved, and that it suddenly appeared without any progression over time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution ... telligence

The innocent ancient people, who were here when Noah arrived, evolved into today's Humans, when their population married the descendants of Adam. We are the result - Gen.6.

More fabrication. Noah wasn't a real person ... he is a mythical person from the bible who never lived. One solid giveaway is that he, like Adam and many others, supposedly lived for 900+ years which is virtually impossible for any modern or archaic human. But since Noah supposedly lived around 4000-5000 years ago (according to biblical chronology ... not your made up history), he would have been an anatomically modern human in every sense. This means it is impossible that he lived to 950 years old, or built an ark at 500 years old, or any of the other things attributed to him.

How did we get this higher Intelligence? and When? History is clear. We began to build Human Civilization just AFTER Noah arrived, just south of the mountains of Ararat some 11K years ago. Scripture and History agree, but ToE remains ignorant of the Truth.

History? What history are you referring to because it isn't the actual history of our world. There are plenty of books describing world history and the basic understanding of it is taught in grade school. Yet you are making up your own version that is not compatible with science, or the religious version you appear to reference by quoting bible verses. There were hunter-gatherer groups (of modern humans) all over the world long before 11,000 years ago and we have proof of this that cannot be refuted.

P.S. This thread is about Religion and Science and the Topic is Genesis - The Beginning .... and the discussion can be based on SCRIPTURE, Science or History. Therefore, you are in ERROR on your flawed assumption - contrary to your view and continued pleading.

Yes, so you should stop making up stuff and quoting bible verses as those can't be used to support any claim (read the subforum guidelines). And I'm not assuming anything ... I'm simply supporting ToE (which is actual science) against your completely made up descriptions that aren't compatible with science in any way. Science has debunked both the Genesis creation myth, as well as the Noah's flood myth. Thoroughly.

[seve]

[Replying to post 36 by seve]

Once again, read your history, there were NO Humans, on this present earth, until Noah arrived on this "Planet of Apes", which is confirmed by the fact that there are NO other Human Civilizations, older than Mesopotamia , just South of the mountains of Ararat some 11k years ago.

This is complete nonsense. Who do you think made the cave paintings and various figurines dated to 30,000 years ago and more if there were no humans? The evolutionary path from apes to earlier members of the genus Homo to modern Homo sapiens has been pretty well mapped out, and it did not happen (at all) as you are describing. You need to spend some time in a library, or on Wikipedia, catching up with what modern science as shown in regards to human evolution and stop making up stuff that isn't even consistent with the bible that you keep quoting verses from. Virtually nothing you said in this post is consistent with science, or bible tales.

DrNoGods,

Now, you are revealing your limited knowledge of our continuing discussion.

Ape/monkey societies are Not Human Civilizations. Some Evols would have us believe that we ARE Apes. We are the descendants of Adam and the sons of God.

Elephants also have graveyards and can paint arts with brush using their trump.... now, would you consider those elephants Human, then???

Come on man. Get real and please don’t wast our time with your illogical assumption by being a WILLINGLY IGNORANT repeatedly as your tactical defense.

In fact, the 1st Human City was built by Cain with NO preconditions, and virtually No evolution. When one possess Human Intelligence, he doesn't have to wait for Evolution for some 4 Million years, to built himself a home. After 4 Million + years, Evolution Never produced anyone who built a city.

Noah's grandsons produced Offspring who built the 1st Human Cities on this Planet. That's what happens when you combine the physical DNA of the sons of God, with the Human Intelligence of Adam's descendants. We get today's Human Beings, and you don't have to wait for Millions of years to become Civilized

THEREFORE, LET ME AGAIN HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE AND READ MY LIPS:[/b]

Once again, let me remind you that there were NO Humans, on this planet, until Noah arrived, which is confirmed by the fact that there are NO other Human Civilizations, older than Mesopotamia , just South of the mountains of Ararat. HISTORY agrees to the Scripture. Unfortunately, Evols are the odd men out.

TRY AGAIN?

[Donray]

Thus far the person using the bible as a science book has yet to prove the bible is nothing more than many myths and fictional stories. Until there is some proof that the bible is a science digest then it must consider a work of fiction and not a science book.

There is no proof of a world flood.
No proof Mosses existed.

If the bible is true then its god did the most murdering of any old gods.

So, prove the bible is true and your god is a mass murderer.