To where did Jesus ascend?

[marco]

We have in Luke 24:51:
"While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven."


We now know that heaven is not in the area of the clouds. Of course in the time of Christ it was believed that the home of God was in the sky: heaven and sky are often the same.

Does this account show that there was fabrication, based on false beliefs?

If Jesus knew heaven wasn't in the sky, why would he employ deception, rising to nowhere?


Or is the account - as usual - figurative. Jesus was raised to eminence, but not literally.

[marco]

Biblically, heaven is neither up nor down from the earth, its a spiritual location where God abides, it's another universe.

But the notion it is in the sky is presented to us when God steps on to mountains from wherever heaven is located.

If heaven is NOT a physical locaation above the clouds, then Jesus wasn't being exactly truthful when he said "I am the truth", for he left the apostles believing a lie.


Mark perpetuates the myth: "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."

[marco]

But if the Ascension is "figurative" where did the fully god, fully man, flesh and blood Living Lord take his flesh and blood to …?

This is similar to the mystery of Christ's clothes which the Roman soldiers took. His body was put in a shroud, but in the empty sepulchre the funeral garments had been folded neatly, so Jesus went out naked, unless another miracle occurred in the meantime. All is mystery: ascending into the clouds / tailoring new garments while dead.

[SallyF]

But if the Ascension is "figurative" where did the fully god, fully man, flesh and blood Living Lord take his flesh and blood to …?

This is similar to the mystery of Christ's clothes which the Roman soldiers took. His body was put in a shroud, but in the empty sepulchre the funeral garments had been folded neatly, so Jesus went out naked, unless another miracle occurred in the meantime. All is mystery: ascending into the clouds / tailoring new garments while dead.

The Gospel writers (inspired or not by "God") may not have written direct lies.

This New Atheist leans towards hypotheses that concern the idea of figurative.

"Virgin" can mean a low level in a religious order.

"Doves", "Shepherds", Fishermen", "Holy Ghosts" etc can mean religious officials.

"Blind" can mean unable to see religious "truth" - and "Lame" and so forth.

"Dead" can mean excommunicated.

"Heaven" can mean part of a religious building.

And so forth.

The writers may not be lying, but they are writing for different levels of understanding.

In my opinion.

Or perhaps every word really is the Word of God and it's all real …?

Simple answers.

When one shuffles of the weighty yoke of being "Christian" in some form or another, one escapes the obligation of either believing unquestioningly, or making excuses.

When the Christian label is torn off and cast aside, there is a lot more to discover that is really quite fascinating from an historio-political, down-to-earth, god-free perspective.

[JehovahsWitness]

If heaven is NOT a physical locaation above the clouds, then Jesus wasn't being exactly truthful when he said "I am the truth", for he left the apostles believing a lie.

I think my best response to that is to quote you back to you...

I enjoyed this thoughtful post that deals with the situation perfectly and explains your point of view in a clever, meaningful way. I did think about it, as you suggested, and the Ascension does take on a lovely meaning under your explanations.

Emphasis MINE

I don't believe it's entirely beyond the realms of possibility that the disciples grasped at some point in their lives the "lovely meaning" of the Ascention. And unless you are employing your mind reading capacities, it seems fair to say you cannot categorically prove the contrary.

Respect,


JW

[JJ50]

As planes, space rockets and other forms of sky elevation hadn't been invented when Jesus was alive, I think it safe to assume he didn't go skywards.

[Jagella]

I suspect the teacher in this case, Jesus, did not know there was any error in regarding heaven as in the clouds. The reply will be that he didn't come to teach astronomy.

Jesus said a lot of things we nowadays know to be untrue, and his actions betray his ignorance or the ignorance of his creators. For example, he reputedly thought that the stars could fall from the sky, and he also wasn't aware that washing hands is important to prevent the spread of germs. He even mistakenly believed that mental and physical illness was caused by demons.

Sheesh--no wonder the Christians here are loathe to debate me! LOL

[1213]

...That is not to say that heaven is literally "up", only that that was the direction Jesus went when he parted for the last time from his disciples. Biblically, heaven is neither up nor down from the earth, its a spiritual location where God abides, it's another universe. ...

I think it can be another dimension. Similar to thoughts, or attitude (spirit). Thoughts are not physically visible, they exist in another level. I think same is with Jesus or angels.

[marco]

...That is not to say that heaven is literally "up", only that that was the direction Jesus went when he parted for the last time from his disciples. Biblically, heaven is neither up nor down from the earth, its a spiritual location where God abides, it's another universe. ...

I think it can be another dimension. Similar to thoughts, or attitude (spirit). Thoughts are not physically visible, they exist in another level. I think same is with Jesus or angels.

Belief and ideas are of the same substance. People believe or imagine angels, Jesus etc. This would make God, Jesus, angels products of human imagination. That seems certainly true, but it is hard so suppose that the imagined entity God, inhabitant of the thought dimension, was capable of creating himself and the planet Jupiter, among other things..

[1213]

… People believe or imagine angels, Jesus etc. This would make God, Jesus, angels products of human imagination. ….

Sorry, I don’t believe human imagination could produce the idea of Bible God. I don’t think people are good enough for doing that.

[SallyF]

As planes, space rockets and other forms of sky elevation hadn't been invented when Jesus was alive, I think it safe to assume he didn't go skywards.

Let's assume there is some element of reality in this fantastic tale.

Atheist Christians are fond of using the term "figurative" to explain away fantastical things.

If "Heaven" is figurative speak for part of a religious building, we have a very simple Occam's Razor-like explanation.