Do you really desire an eternal life?

[bluegreenearth]

When we follow the concept of an infinite life to its logical conclusion, there is an inescapable and unresolvable inevitability most Christians conveniently ignore when contemplating the afterlife. Eternity is not just a long time but an unending and ultimately valueless repetition of experiences. Given an infinite amount of time, every desirable experience is not only possible but guaranteed to occur until those experiences begin to repeat themselves over and over again. Eventually, the repetition of desirable experiences will reach a threshold where they are no longer perceived as desirable. This is because the perception of there being a limited amount of time to obtain and appreciate something is what makes that thing desirable in the first place. Remove that sense of impermanence and we lose our ability to value anything. Yes, even the love we feel for our family and close friends is inextricably linked to an understanding and acceptance of a mortal life. Therefore, is the ability to live forever a gift or a curse? Even if we were granted an eternal life in the heaven-like environment of our dreams, doesn't logic dictate that we would all eventually grow to prefer non-existence to a valueless existence?

[bluegreenearth]

If a god were to continue creating new universes for us to explore, there will come a point along that eternal journey where we are no longer motivated by the anticipation of a surprise or artistic desire to continue moving ahead.

I can present no better response to that than ....

... you are not qualified to judge whether permanent things can bring happiness for an eternity since you have not yet lived for an eternity.

JW

I haven't claimed to know if some permanent thing can bring happiness for an eternity. I am claiming to be unaware of any thing I could value if isn't necessary to sustain my existence in a place where I could effortlessly obtain it at any time. I don't need to have lived for an eternity to know I wouldn't place much value in something that wasn't necessary for my survival and was freely available in abundance to me. However, I see why you were confused because the statement can very easily be misinterpreted out of context.

[JehovahsWitness]

If a god were to continue creating new universes for us to explore, there will come a point along that eternal journey where we are no longer motivated by the anticipation of a surprise or artistic desire to continue moving ahead.

I can present no better response to that than ....

... you are not qualified to judge whether permanent things can bring happiness for an eternity since you have not yet lived for an eternity.

JW

I don't need to have lived for an eternity to know I wouldn't place much value in something that wasn't necessary for my survival and was freely available in abundance to me.

So you are qualified to make a judgement about yourself but Swami and others cannot? Swami made a personal statement on his source of happiness and You replied ...

... you are not qualified to judge whether permanent things can bring happiness for an eternity since you have not yet lived for an eternity.

.. You are "qualified" to make a personal assessment for the version of "yourself" that may exist an eternity into the future, based on your present day feelings, but Swami is not?



JW

[JJ50]

An eternal life would be my idea of hell.

[bluegreenearth]

.. You are "qualified" to make a personal assessment for the "yourself" that may exist an eternity into the future, based on your present day feelings, but Swami is not?

Swami is qualified to judge the value of things which bring him happiness during his mortal existence in the same way that I am qualified to make similar value judgments during my mortal existence. Both Swami and I are also qualified to logically infer how the things we value during our mortal existence will lose their value given an immortal existence. Neither I nor Swami are qualified to claim knowledge that a thing will be eternally valuable since we cannot rule out the possibility that having an eternal life will ultimately alter our perspective of that thing's value. Swami might believe he will continue to value something for an eternity but cannot know he will always value that thing since he has not yet attained an eternal existence.

[JehovahsWitness]

Neither I nor Swami are qualified to claim knowledge that a thing will be eternally valuable since we cannot rule out the possibility that having an eternal life will ultimately alter our perspective of that thing's value. .

Fair enough.

And are either if you qualified to claim knowledge that a thing will be eternally *invaluable** since you cannot rule out the possibility that having an eternal life will ultimately alter you perspective of that thing's value?

Swami might believe he will continue to value something for an eternity but cannot know he will always value that thing since he has not yet attained an eternal existence.

And you? Might you believe you will continue not to value something (within a given criteria) and believe that will always be the case, but be wrong since you have not yet attained an eternal existence ? Or are you the only mortal who knows his perceptions would never change in immortality?




JW

[bluegreenearth]

Neither I nor Swami are qualified to claim knowledge that a thing will be eternally valuable since we cannot rule out the possibility that having an eternal life will ultimately alter our perspective of that thing's value. .

Fair enough.

And are either if you qualified to claim knowledge that a thing will be eternally *invaluable** since you cannot rule out the possibility that having an eternal life will ultimately alter you perspective of that thing's value?

Swami might believe he will continue to value something for an eternity but cannot know he will always value that thing since he has not yet attained an eternal existence.

And you? Might you believe you will continue not to value something and believe that will always be the case, but be wrong since you has not yet attained an eternal existence ?

Intellectual honesty requires that I remain open to the possibility of being convinced otherwise. However, I am currently unable to disprove the claim that everything I value during my mortal existence will eventually lose most or all its value if I were to attain an immortal existence and all those things became abundantly and eternally available to me at any time.

[1213]

... Therefore, is the ability to live forever a gift or a curse? Even if we were granted an eternal life in the heaven-like environment of our dreams, doesn't logic dictate that we would all eventually grow to prefer non-existence to a valueless existence?

When you live in a moment, time loses its meaning.

[JehovahsWitness]

Intellectual honesty requires that I remain open to the possibility of being convinced otherwise.

I'm unconcerned of your personal convictions above and beyond you seem to have extrapolated them to make sweeping affirmations as to the nature of desire and how all living intelligent beings will be effected by the prospect of unending life. Not a few posters questioned the basis for this premise.

If your argument is largely based on your own worldview and values and your conviction they would remain unchanged, that's fine, but to dismiss others that having followed exactly the same process but came to alternative conclusions is, to say the least, inconsistent.



JW

[bluegreenearth]

... Therefore, is the ability to live forever a gift or a curse? Even if we were granted an eternal life in the heaven-like environment of our dreams, doesn't logic dictate that we would all eventually grow to prefer non-existence to a valueless existence?

When you live in a moment, time loses its meaning.

It is easy to adopt that perspective as a mortal being. Living in the present moment is an advisable distraction to the reality of our impermanence. However, given an eternal life, what would be the purpose and motivation for living in a single moment when there are infinite moments available?

[bluegreenearth]

Intellectual honesty requires that I remain open to the possibility of being convinced otherwise.

I'm unconcerned of your personal convictions above and beyond you seem to have extrapolated them to make sweeping affirmations as to the nature of desire and how all living intelligent beings will be effected by the prospect of unending life. Not a few posters questioned the basis for this premise.

If your argument is largely based on your own worldview and values and your conviction they would remain unchanged, that's fine, but to dismiss others that having followed exactly the same process but came to alternative conclusions is, to say the least, inconsistent.

The argument demonstrates a logical outcome of receiving an eternal life. Since it is grounded in logic, it cannot be a matter of my opinion. However, it might be possible that my logic is flawed but no one has demonstrated this yet. My assessment of the alternative conclusions provided by theists is that they have not followed the same logical process all the way through.