Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:03 am

The one who in English we call Jesus says no one gets to the father but by him. Jesus has been given power over ALL flesh and has power over unclean spirits. He says he will accuse you to the father. He also says he does Gods will. And those who follow him will be saved

Who must we go through? It is HaSatan. We must resist evil to get to God. He has power over all flesh and has power over unclean spirits. He stands ready to accuse us before God. His job us to turn us away from God. To disobey. The book of job tells us that God allowes him to tempt job . But he was to 'save he s life'

Jesus isn't like God. He is like HaSatan.

Jesus even said how to tell if he was true. He said those who are true seek God's glory. Then later on while talking with God he says:
I will that they also father be WITH ME where I AM so they may behold MY GLORY. Jesus also says I go my way and no one asks me where I am going. Where IS he going? Christians don't know yet they are dying to go. Indeed they are. Ohhhhh....eternal life he promises. Should be a wonderful place. Hanging out with the unclean spirits. The most rotten person is allowed permanent residence in his kingdom. Just prociaim Jesus is lord. SCARY!!

Come on...he tells you how to test if he is true then takes the test. AND FAILS THE TEST.
He also said a tree us judged by the fruit it produces. What is it Jesus accomplished. Bthats the bottom line. He has got people to turn away from God and his laws. AND GOT HUS FOLLOWERS TO CALL HIM LORD.

HaSatan has done his job

JESUS - YES, THE SON OF GOD. YOU REALLY WANT HIM TO SAY HE KNOWS YOU COME JUDGEMENT DAY? OMG!!

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:37 pm

[Replying to post 7 by Willum]

And how can we find what we don't know what to look for. Perhaps he has been found already. Perhaps he has no form. Sure, we live in a physical world but that's this world And we can't impose our definition of existence when looking for an unknown entity. Maybe it's a sound or smell that we should seek. Or is composed of some other sensory that we don't even know exists. Maybe we can't see, hear, smell, taste or touch him

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:46 pm

[Replying to post 10 by Willum]

Now THAT is an ignorant statement. To say people KNOW for sure. If you believe that then you are a fool to waste your life debating it. What's to debate? Aren't u certain?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:48 pm

[Replying to post 11 by Avoice]

So your support of the argument from ignorance, is a further argument from ignorance?
If you do not know what you to look for, you certainly have no way to find it.
It is easy to find light in the dark, and so it is easy to find the most prominent thing in the universe, if it existed.
Since what is necessary for this God to exist, cannot be found, in every discipline except theology, this is sufficient.

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:20 pm

Avoice wrote: Some believe there is a God who created all we see. Some do not believe it. Neither can prove they are right and prove the other wrong.

This argument could be made in terms of a totally undefined philosophical concept of "God". Basically a meaningless concept since it is indeed undefined.

However, you are wrong when it comes to specific theologies and mythological dogma. The the God portrayed in the Abrahamic myths has indeed been proven to not exist as it is described in those myths. So if you are attempting to support the God of Abraham your claim here is simply false. That myth has been proven to be false.

Avoice wrote: Which ever way one leans, their belief is, I believe a manifestation of their hearts desire. I choose to believe.

The Abrahamic myths have been proven to be false as they are written. Therefore choosing to believe in them is unjustified.

Avoice wrote: One Reason is that I believe i exist. And because I believe entities exist then the scale which would sit at zero because of lack of proof either way gets some weight added to the believing end simply because I myself exist. Those who don't believe...hmmm.. maybe that is what they hope for because to believe would be scary.

This doesn't change the fact that the specific myths that you have chosen to believe in have already proven themselves to be false via their own texts.

Avoice wrote: Perhaps we will all get what we want.

We are all subject to the truth of reality regardless of what we might want. So what you believe in is actually quite irrelevant.

Avoice wrote: No matter which side we are on - there remain that fraction which tells us we might be wrong.

Choosing to use your beliefs as a foundation to create tribalism does no one any good including, and perhaps most profoundly, yourself. Because when you do this you are the one who ends up on the front lines of this kind of religious tribal warfare.

Avoice wrote: Debating on things we can't prove really is a dumb thing to debate. We want to be proved right it proved wrong. It will never happen. Okay..everyone on their corners and wait for the bell. Lol

This is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. You are imagining and endless battle between theists and atheists neither of which, from your perspective, could ever win.

If you actually feel this way then why bother? Who not just drop out of this futile tribal rat race and accept then neither "side" of you tribal war could ever make any progress?

~~~~~~

Please note: I don't see things from your perspective. Instead I see the Abrahamic theists as clearly attempting to defend an in defensible theology. So they have already lost their tribal religious wars whether they realize this or not.

Could their be some sort of ill-defined philosophical concept of a "God"? A potential intelligent creator of all of reality? Sure there could. But that's not going to justify the obviously flawed Abraham religions.

If you want to join the "side" that supports a more intelligent view of a possible "God" then you'd be far better off moving over to Buddhism. You'll have a far more in intelligent picture of a God to defend when you join that camp.

However, you'll also soon discover that there is no need for tribal warfare over there because there is no need to defend that religion. The God of Buddhism isn't threatening to condemn people for not believing in him. So in Buddhism atheists don't matter. Atheists are in precisely the same boat as devote Buddhists. All that matters in Buddhism is how someone behaves. What they might believe is totally irrelevant.

But as long as you cling to the Abrahamic religions you've already lost all theological debates because you've chosen a theology that has already exposed its own self-contradictory nature.

The God of the Bible has already be proven to not exist in very much the same way that a rational solution to the square root of 2 has been proven to not exist.

So you're beating a dead horse when attempting to defend that theology.

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:09 pm

Avoice wrote: Jesus even said how to tell if he was true. He said those who are true seek God's glory. Then later on while talking with God he says:
I will that they also father be WITH ME where I AM so they may behold MY GLORY.

Jesus regularly claimed to be God, and the writers of the New Testament regularly said that he is God. This is one of many such examples.

If his claim is true then he is God and Satan is defeated.

If the claim is false then he was insane (and I am talking crazy on the level of a man who says that he is writing desk), or he was a liar certainly on level with Satan himself.

Avoice wrote: Jesus also says I go my way and no one asks me where I am going. Where IS he going?

He claimed he was going to God the Father.

Avoice wrote: The most rotten person is allowed permanent residence in his kingdom. Just prociaim Jesus is lord. SCARY!!

GLORIOUS! WONDEROUS! MERCIFUL! HALLELUJAH!

Avoice wrote: Come on...he tells you how to test if he is true then takes the test. AND FAILS THE TEST.

Perhaps. If what he said was true, then he passed the test. If what he said was false then he failed the test.

Avoice wrote: He also said a tree us judged by the fruit it produces. What is it Jesus accomplished.

He turned millions to faith in the living God.

Avoice wrote: JESUS - YES, THE SON OF GOD. YOU REALLY WANT HIM TO SAY HE KNOWS YOU COME JUDGEMENT DAY?

Lord willing, yes.

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:00 pm

bjs wrote: If his claim is true then he is God and Satan is defeated.

So in order for God to defeat Satan, God had to stoop to the extreme desperation of arranging to have humans brutally crucify God in a Roman style crucifixion?

I say that t his Satan fellow is pretty good at making God jump through his hoops.

Besides, have you forgotten? The Gospels have Jesus himself (according to you God himself) confessing that only FEW will be saved. So it wasn't much of a defeat. Satan actually won the overall war of destroying the vast majority of souls that God created.

So according to this mythology Satan actually turns out to be the real winner in this war of good versus evil.

Not only this, but who are the souls that God saves? They can't be righteous on their own merit, for if that were the case they would have defeated Satan themselves.

According to Christianity only sinners who confess to being unworthy of God can be saved via undeserved grace.

So if this was a war between a God and a Devil the Devil won big time, and all the God managed to do was potentially save a few undeserving humans, none of which kept God's commandments. For if they had done that they wouldn't need to have God butchered on a pole as their penal substitute.

So I don't see how you can say that Satan was defeated. He totally destroyed everything this God had ever hoped for. Even if Satan is killed in the end that's hardly a victory for God. All that would amount to is nothing more than revenge being taken by a frustrated God who obviously lost everything to Satan.

Trying to make the Bible into a fable about a God who's at war with a fallen angel is, quite frankly, ridiculous. This would be a God who had to bend over backward in extremely desperate acts on multiple occasions in an attempt to defeat this fallen angel.

That's a pretty depressing and sad theological paradigm.

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:08 pm

[Replying to post 1 by Avoice]

To be honest if Jesus is not God then you are correct. It is so obvious to me that the NT puts Jesus ahead of God.

Post by **otseng** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:11 pm

Avoice wrote: [Replying to post 10 by Willum]

Now THAT is an ignorant statement.

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1213 · Post by **1213** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:29 pm

Avoice wrote: [Replying to post 2 by 1213]

I apologize. Jesus did not say that. Neither did HaSatan say that. But that is what they or he will do

on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

"I can do nothing on My own initiative As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

I know that Bible tells Satan is accuser, but Bible doesnâ€™t tell Jesus is. Bible tells Jesus is the defender.

The great dragon was thrown down, the old serpent, he who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now is come the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:9-10

My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor [Greek Parakleton: Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, and Comfortor.] with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
1 John 2:1

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus is the defense lawyer and Satan is the accuser, if we believe what the Bible tells. And I rather believe Bible than you.

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm

[Replying to post 13 by Willum]

Why is it necessary to find God? And so you find him. Then what? I'd think if I denied He existed then finding him would be the worst thing you could do. For yourself

Debating Christianity and Religion

Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Re: Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Re: Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Re: Not one comes to the father but by ______?

Re: Not one comes to the father but by ______?