Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Topaz27
Student
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:17 pm
Location: Minnesota

Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Post #1

Post by Topaz27 »

I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?

brianbbs67
Guru
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #61

Post by brianbbs67 »

Aetixintro wrote: [Replying to post 24 by brianbbs67]

The time may not be as definite as we may come to think of it.

The year, by invention of the calendar, may also be quite metaphorically put rather than literal so to say that Noah and all of his human beings and animals endured some time until the flooding process finished. Ok?

:study: :D 8-)
Maybe...but its still Monday. The days of the week and months have changed over time but the measure of them seems to have remained the same.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Post #62

Post by Tcg »

Eloi wrote: And so I did:

Repeating the references that don't support your claim over and over again, rather than addressing the questions I've asked, is not convincing. I'll accept the fact that this is the best you can do.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

brianbbs67
Guru
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:07 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Post #63

Post by brianbbs67 »

Topaz27 wrote: Jehovah's Witness:
I'm sorry I don't quite understand the "massive weight impacting on the planet from or above the mesosphere" point that you made. Are you just talking about a meteorite? If so how much would that impact the height of Mt. Everest? Because I truly don't know. I know meteorites can cause earthquakes, but how much would that change the height?

If you believe the scientific age/history of the world, then the ocean would most definitely be salt water at the time of the flood. Once again, we know roughly when oceans became salty. Approximately 500 million years ago.

I also believe time scales are very important. For precisely these reasons.

brianbbs67:
While Gilgamesh has a flood story, that doesn't make it real. Many tribes in North America don't have flood stories. While a few do, the majority do not. Also the few that have flood stories lived by either the ocean, or the great lakes.

One interesting flood myth is Nu'u. Nu'u is basically just the story of Noah, but based in Hawai'i. He made an ark and landed it on top of a mountain in Hawai'i. He then sacrificed animals and when he did the god Kane descended to him on a rainbow. Quite similar to Noah, but in an entirely different local.

In fact many religions/cultures have a very similar story, most likely due to the almost world wide view of waters having a purifying quality to them.

Even if the water came from underground, the majority would be fresh water. In fact it makes up about 20% of Earth's fresh water.

The idea that all land being under water also brings up the problem of vegetation. How would so many plants survive under water for that long?

Aetixintro:
I don't see why they would make the amount of time be metaphorical, and I don't think that changes my arguments.

Difflugia:
You're right I did miss that verse. But as stated above, "fountains of the deep," are responsible for 20% of Earth's water. I also love the diagram, it's quite interesting. Even though it is obviously not correct, it's interesting to see how Ancient Hebrew's viewed the Earth. I think it sheds a light on the lack of knowledge that people back then had about the physical world.



Thank you for the responses, and I appologize for the late reply
None of us know whether the flood story in Gilgamesh or Noah is true. We weren't there nor AFAIK, God has not revealed it. At least to me, anyways.

Interesting note is all creatures on the earth perished. Nothing is said of the water creatures or plants. Or those under the Earth. Seems there are some of those too.

Yes, the Flat Earthers like that picture. I kinda doubt its true but I have not been to space to observe it. Don't confuse that statement as an affirmation of a flat Earth.

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Post #64

Post by Eloi »

I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am giving you what you are asking for. And I love it, you asking the same and the same and the same ... and I am giving you what you are asking for again and again and again ... cause you still don't get it ... and it's Ok, not every one can get it ... but some others can.

I was about to contact the admin, cause I thought my cites of the Bible were not visible ... I see they are; it is you who don't read them. I am sure others do. ;)

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Post #65

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Topaz27 wrote: Can we still agree that the oceans would still be diluted due to the massive amounts of fresh water from both undersea cavern, as well as rain?
I have already posted about that
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 818#983818
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 980#983980


JW






WATERS
Where did the waters come from ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 807#983807

Where did the waters come go ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 813#983813

How could marine life have survived the DESALTIFICATION of the oceans?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 818#983818

TOPOLOGY
How could the waters have covered the mountains?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 830#983830

How could earth present topology be explained [high mountains]?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 976#983976


PLANTS
How could plant life have survived the flood ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 982#983982

How could the surviving plants and seeds result in the variety of plant life we see today?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 071#984071


TIMELINES
Does not the bible say the earth is a few thousand years old?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 842#983842

Are all scientific/ historical timelines accurate?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 076#984076
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:08 am, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Post #66

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Topaz27 wrote: While you're correct some plants would survive, that's not my argument. Most plants would die.
Emphasis MINE

More importantly, some seeds bulbs, shoots, even roots would have survived. And "Some" would have been all that would have been necessary to replenish the earth. Plants, like animals (and humans) have an amazing capacity to adapt and reproduce given the right conditions. Indeed, scientists have long proposed that the earth has experienced several catastrophic climatic events which resulted in near total extinction of all life but recovered.

How Plants survived the Ice Age
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/hi ... e-ice-age/
Topaz27 wrote: How would Noah, be able to obtain all of the different kinds in some way, (sapling, seed, or whatever), and then keep them in living conditions?
Presumably by thinking like a Norwegian.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Post #67

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Topaz27 wrote: ... my point about Nu'u is quite interesting in my opinion.
How do you explain the near universality of a flood myth if not that It was a real event?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Post #68

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Tart wrote:
I just dont know... However i do believe God has the power to will destiny, but was their a flood? I just dont know
If God has power do you think he has the power to have mankind's true history recorded and preserved for us? Or is that just too difficult for him?



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Post #69

Post by JehovahsWitness »

ARE ALL SCIENTIFIC TIMELINES ACCURATE?
Topaz27 wrote: While you are right about the scientist, possibly, not getting the timeline correct. How likely is that?
Very likely in my opinion. My personal view can be summed up by the following quotation.


When science and the Bible differ, science has obviously misinterpreted its data. -- Henry M. Morris
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6607 times
Been thanked: 3209 times

Post #70

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 67 by JehovahsWitness]
How do you explain the near universality of a flood myth if not that It was a real event?
Throughout history civilisations have grown in close association with sources of water. Rivers and seas provide abundant food and means of transport and trade between communities. Floods are very common occurrences. We have recently experienced the devastating effects of massive tsunamis as well as flooding due to persistent rainfall. Nowadays we know a lot more about such natural events, but back in ignorant and superstitious times such events would have been seen as signs of anger and discontent on the part of the gods. Naturally, tales of what might have seemed like enormous catastrophes to such people would have been told and retold until they became world-wide disasters inflicted by gods as some form of punishment. Cross-fertilisation between different cultures may have resulted in similarities creeping in between different accounts. Eventually the stories became cemented in their final form when writing became common practice.

In the last two hundred years we have learnt an awful lot about the workings of our planet. From all of that we have established as fact that not only did the biblical flood not happen, but it could not have happened. It is understandable that Christians will find a strong need to defend their tale because it calls into question every reference in the Bible where the flood is mentioned. A literal great flood in the Bible is like having a run in a silk stocking. Eventually you have no choice but to discard the whole thing.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

Post Reply