Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

[Topaz27]

I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 122 by onewithhim]

onewithinhim:
Not all flood mythos are the same. Take the Gaelic story of Ceasair. Her father was Noah (yes the Noah from the Bible), and he refused her entry to the ark. So she built her own. She brought many others with her, and set sail for what we now call Ireland.

There's two ways I can think someone can take this story.
A)The story is true, and someone else survived the flood. Which means that God didn't accomplish his goal

Or

B)The story is false. But then the question becomes, how can you prove that it's false?

How do you know that your flood myth is true? And not the countless other ones.

Also other flood myths are radically different. Take she story of Trentren Vilu and Caicai Vilu. That story is about battle, not a God washing away evil. So you saying that because other cultures have flood myths, I must be right, makes absolutely no sense. Especially when Noah's flood seems to take a lot of inspirations form Gilgamesh's flood.

The point I'm trying to make is that various civilizations have a Flood story. If it really happened, then such would be the case, would it not? The tale of a Great Flood would be in the civilizations' lore somewhere. We would expect each version of the story to be different, according to that group's own religious orientations (most did not recognize nor worship Jehovah, Noah's God). They all had their own slant on this great event.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 126 by Tcg]

To me what I thought you said (I apologize for not going back and making sure) means the same as what you actually said. You indicated that it was imperative to demonstrate a truth in order to believe it......am I way off?

Anyway, I, personally, can accept the Bible's accounts even though many cannot be proven, as I accept the existence of men of old, even though no one today could demonstrate that they were actually real people. Someone would have to produce them for us to see, or at least their skeletons with a DNA "imprimatur."

[Donray]

JehovahsWitness wrote

PREFACE: Ultimately I don't think anyone that holds to a literal global flood does so without pointing out it was a miraculous event the result of the actions of an omnipotent God, for whom nothing is impossible. Thus while not all questions can be answered when it comes to the flood and it would be presumptuous to claim that is the case, there is enough evidence for us to conclude the biblical narrative does indeed describe a real global event.

[/quote]

This is the typical response from people that cannot give any explanation nor want to discuss the issue. How does one debate a sky wizard with unlimited powers that no one can even hope to understand?

At least since you say you have proof of a Noah size flood please answer the following:

Why did your god decide to murder people by torturing them with drowning verses just waving its wand and making them disappear?

Why don't we find the tops of mountains littered with bones since everything would have died on mountain tops?

Please give the date of the flood. This should be no problem since you know it occurred and have proof.

Please show how the unique animals in Australia migrated in the time given from where the ark landed and what animal on the ark adapted into the ones in Australia.

Once you answer these we can debate the.

[Topaz27]

Jehovah's Witness:

Jehovah's Witness:
There's four really important peice of information that I don't know, so help clarify things for you.

1) How old do you think the Earth is?

2) How old is the universe?

3) How long ago did the flood happen?

4) Is the Earth flat?

These were the questions I was alluding to. You definitely have not talked about if the Earth is flat or not.
You have talked about how old the universe is.
You have been very unclear about the age of the Earth. You said that the Bible doesn't say that Earth can't be billions of years old. But you've never directly stated how old YOU think is. Or at least how old you think the Bible says it is.
You also definitely have not stated how long ago you think the flood happened.

Please answer these, so I can understand your viewpoint better.

onewithhim:
Just because floods are world wide, doesn't mean there was a world wide flood. Let me explain. Floods happen all across the world. From England to Wellington. From Cape Town to Honolulu. Floods happen all the time all across the world. Just because areas have massive floods doesn't mean that they all happened at once. In ancient times Noah wouldn't be able to check if the other side of the globe was flooded too. Just because everything around him was under water, that doesn't mean the whole world was too.

[onewithhim]

JehovahsWitness wrote

PREFACE: Ultimately I don't think anyone that holds to a literal global flood does so without pointing out it was a miraculous event the result of the actions of an omnipotent God, for whom nothing is impossible. Thus while not all questions can be answered when it comes to the flood and it would be presumptuous to claim that is the case, there is enough evidence for us to conclude the biblical narrative does indeed describe a real global event.

This is the typical response from people that cannot give any explanation nor want to discuss the issue. How does one debate a sky wizard with unlimited powers that no one can even hope to understand?

At least since you say you have proof of a Noah size flood please answer the following:

Why did your god decide to murder people by torturing them with drowning verses just waving its wand and making them disappear?

Why don't we find the tops of mountains littered with bones since everything would have died on mountain tops?

Please give the date of the flood. This should be no problem since you know it occurred and have proof.

Please show how the unique animals in Australia migrated in the time given from where the ark landed and what animal on the ark adapted into the ones in Australia.

Once you answer these we can debate the.[/quote]




ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:
(1) God shows His respect for people by giving them an active role in this life on Earth. He allowed people to continue to live while Noah built the ark and while he preached to them all about the coming judgment (2Peter 2:5). Everyone had the chance to change their minds and stop doing the evil things they were doing. He also gave Noah the chance to obey Jehovah, following through with his determination to follow His instructions.

(2) The Bible doesn't say that everyone died on mountain tops.

(3) According to Bible chronology, the Flood occurred around 2,700 B.C..

(4) We do not know how Noah obtained all of the animals, nor how they spread out after the Flood subsided.[/b]

[onewithhim]

Jehovah's Witness:

Jehovah's Witness:
There's four really important peice of information that I don't know, so help clarify things for you.

1) How old do you think the Earth is?

2) How old is the universe?

3) How long ago did the flood happen?

4) Is the Earth flat?

These were the questions I was alluding to. You definitely have not talked about if the Earth is flat or not.
You have talked about how old the universe is.
You have been very unclear about the age of the Earth. You said that the Bible doesn't say that Earth can't be billions of years old. But you've never directly stated how old YOU think is. Or at least how old you think the Bible says it is.
You also definitely have not stated how long ago you think the flood happened.

Please answer these, so I can understand your viewpoint better.

onewithhim:
Just because floods are world wide, doesn't mean there was a world wide flood. Let me explain. Floods happen all across the world. From England to Wellington. From Cape Town to Honolulu. Floods happen all the time all across the world. Just because areas have massive floods doesn't mean that they all happened at once. In ancient times Noah wouldn't be able to check if the other side of the globe was flooded too. Just because everything around him was under water, that doesn't mean the whole world was too.

Topaz27: Just wondering if you read my posts: #86,87; #90 ?
I think JehovahsWitness and I agree on those points. The universe is untold billions of years old, perhaps even coinciding with scientists' calculations. The earth is indeed at least 5 billion years old. There is no reason to believe that it is any younger. I think I explained this in my posts.

The Flood happened around 2,700 B.C., according to Bible chronology.

No, the earth is NOT FLAT.

Finally, I would allow for adjusted explanations of EXACTLY how the story of the Flood unfolded. It's not written in stone in my head. However, as far as I've seen, even scientists of various fields say that mankind seems to be descended from the three sons of Noah---Shem [the Semitic people], Ham [the Negroid people], and Japheth [Caucasians and, I guess, everyone else]. There is something to this story that rings true with me. I don't care if the water literally covered every mountain or if it didn't. Something happened with a great flood back then, which impacted the people on the planet and the animals and their surroundings. Science knows that the poles were at one time green with lush vegetation. This agrees with the Bible's mention of "waters below and ABOVE the firmament," making the earth and its atmosphere like a terrarium. Animals in the far North have been found with mouthfuls of vegetation as if suddenly quick-frozen while they ate, which the adjustment in temperature that the eradication of the terrarium would have caused. There are places where skeletons of people (even very large people like the Nephilim) have been found, all smashed together as if hit by a wall of water. They have no explanation for this, but it coincides with what the Bible is saying.

[Donray]

JehovahsWitness wrote

PREFACE: Ultimately I don't think anyone that holds to a literal global flood does so without pointing out it was a miraculous event the result of the actions of an omnipotent God, for whom nothing is impossible. Thus while not all questions can be answered when it comes to the flood and it would be presumptuous to claim that is the case, there is enough evidence for us to conclude the biblical narrative does indeed describe a real global event.

This is the typical response from people that cannot give any explanation nor want to discuss the issue. How does one debate a sky wizard with unlimited powers that no one can even hope to understand?

At least since you say you have proof of a Noah size flood please answer the following:

Why did your god decide to murder people by torturing them with drowning verses just waving its wand and making them disappear?

Why don't we find the tops of mountains littered with bones since everything would have died on mountain tops?

Please give the date of the flood. This should be no problem since you know it occurred and have proof.

Please show how the unique animals in Australia migrated in the time given from where the ark landed and what animal on the ark adapted into the ones in Australia.

Once you answer these we can debate the.

ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:
(1) God shows His respect for people by giving them an active role in this life on Earth. He allowed people to continue to live while Noah built the ark and while he preached to them all about the coming judgment (2Peter 2:5). Everyone had the chance to change their minds and stop doing the evil things they were doing. He also gave Noah the chance to obey Jehovah, following through with his determination to follow His instructions.

(2) The Bible doesn't say that everyone died on mountain tops.

(3) According to Bible chronology, the Flood occurred around 2,700 B.C..

(4) We do not know how Noah obtained all of the animals, nor how they spread out after the Flood subsided.[/b][/quote]

So the only answer is the flood occurred around 2700 BC. Would you care to point out the evidence for this claim? Or you have no actual proof?

Also, you did not answer why your god tortured people including babies to death by drowning verse just making them vanish into nothing. How does your god show respect by droning babies and children? Do you consider drowning a baby showing respect? Do you think drowning a baby is good?

Come on, you are the expect on Noah and you have no idea how the animals spread around the would in a matter of days??????? So, from a few kinds that were on the ark all the ten of thousands of animals evolved in a matter of years????? Pleas explin how this rapid evolution happened and a lot of creationists like yourself don't belive that human evolved over about a billion years.

I asked you if it is not logical that all the animals and people would have been st the top mountains when your god drown them. Therefor isn't it logical that when should find millions and skeletons at the top of mountains. You appear to not be able to respond unless you can refer the bible. Can you think for yourself and answer the question.

[onewithhim]

JehovahsWitness wrote

PREFACE: Ultimately I don't think anyone that holds to a literal global flood does so without pointing out it was a miraculous event the result of the actions of an omnipotent God, for whom nothing is impossible. Thus while not all questions can be answered when it comes to the flood and it would be presumptuous to claim that is the case, there is enough evidence for us to conclude the biblical narrative does indeed describe a real global event.

This is the typical response from people that cannot give any explanation nor want to discuss the issue. How does one debate a sky wizard with unlimited powers that no one can even hope to understand?

At least since you say you have proof of a Noah size flood please answer the following:

Why did your god decide to murder people by torturing them with drowning verses just waving its wand and making them disappear?

Why don't we find the tops of mountains littered with bones since everything would have died on mountain tops?

Please give the date of the flood. This should be no problem since you know it occurred and have proof.

Please show how the unique animals in Australia migrated in the time given from where the ark landed and what animal on the ark adapted into the ones in Australia.

Once you answer these we can debate the.

ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:
(1) God shows His respect for people by giving them an active role in this life on Earth. He allowed people to continue to live while Noah built the ark and while he preached to them all about the coming judgment (2Peter 2:5). Everyone had the chance to change their minds and stop doing the evil things they were doing. He also gave Noah the chance to obey Jehovah, following through with his determination to follow His instructions.

(2) The Bible doesn't say that everyone died on mountain tops.

(3) According to Bible chronology, the Flood occurred around 2,700 B.C..

(4) We do not know how Noah obtained all of the animals, nor how they spread out after the Flood subsided.[/b]

So the only answer is the flood occurred around 2700 BC. Would you care to point out the evidence for this claim? Or you have no actual proof?

Also, you did not answer why your god tortured people including babies to death by drowning verse just making them vanish into nothing. How does your god show respect by droning babies and children? Do you consider drowning a baby showing respect? Do you think drowning a baby is good?

Come on, you are the expect on Noah and you have no idea how the animals spread around the would in a matter of days??????? So, from a few kinds that were on the ark all the ten of thousands of animals evolved in a matter of years????? Pleas explin how this rapid evolution happened and a lot of creationists like yourself don't belive that human evolved over about a billion years.

I asked you if it is not logical that all the animals and people would have been st the top mountains when your god drown them. Therefor isn't it logical that when should find millions and skeletons at the top of mountains. You appear to not be able to respond unless you can refer the bible. Can you think for yourself and answer the question.[/quote]






ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

I answered all of your questions. I have read that the Flood occurred around 2700 B.C. according to Bible chronology. I have not done the research myself, but rely on others to have done it. Do you trust that E=mc2 even though you have not done all the calculations? Or do you doubt that Einstein was accurate?

Please knock off the old stale complaint that God is an ogre because He caused the death of children when he brought the Flood. Yes He did show respect to all humans when He allowed them to make up their own minds and take steps to show their chosen course, all the while having the option of boarding the ark with Noah. Yet you blame God for their choices! Regarding the children, they were unable to make those choices, and there is nothing to keep us from believing that God will bring them back to life in the Millennial Kingdom. As for the adults and the Nephilim, they all chose to ignore Noah, who they undoubtedly thought was a fool, and carry on with their incredibly evil way of life. Things had to be pretty BAD for God to bring that way of life to ruin. We don't know the half of it.

I didn't say anything about animals evolving. You'll have to take that up with whoever brought it up. I said I don't know how Noah procured the animals or how long it took for them to spread abroad in the earth.

Can you show me where anybody said that humans died on the tops of mountains?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 131 by onewithhim]

The point I'm trying to make is that various civilizations have a Flood story. If it really happened, then such would be the case, would it not? The tale of a Great Flood would be in the civilizations' lore somewhere. We would expect each version of the story to be different, according to that group's own religious orientations (most did not recognize nor worship Jehovah, Noah's God). They all had their own slant on this great event.

If that is all true then it is entirely inconsistent with the biblical great flood.

[Tcg]

Please knock off the old stale complaint that God is an ogre because He caused the death of children when he brought the Flood. Yes He did show respect to all humans when He allowed them to make up their own minds and take steps to show their chosen course, all the while having the option of boarding the ark with Noah. Yet you blame God for their choices!

There is absolutely no support for this view from the Bible. Before Noah built the ark God told him specifically who would be boarding the ark.

Beyond that, this passage from Matthew 24 absolutely contradicts your claim.

• 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39a and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

When theories that contradict the Bible are fabricated to paint a false picture of God's true actions, we know without a doubt that the God being protected truly is an ogre.


Tcg