Is it necessary for the Bible to be inerrant?

[otseng]

Is it necessary for the Bible to be inerrant and still be authoritative? Can the Bible be authoritative while still have errors in it?

Also up for discussion is what is meant by the Bible and inerrancy.

As is the case for all debates in TD&D, it is assumed the Bible is authoritative and is not up for debate.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

Do you think God considers any human being made in His image to be "property" of another human being?

In the following God is depicted as expressly doing just that. It expressly depicts God as condoning slavery:
Leviticus 25
44“ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life...

It is passages such as these that gave supporters of slavery in the antebellum period to believe that God was on their side.

Slavery allowed some people to recover from poverty like Ruth. She lost her entire family except her mother-in-law. Ruth is an example of a person that benefited from working Boaz's fields. (Book of Ruth)

There were laws that must be followed for slavery.
They must be allowed to rest and worship. (Ex 20:10)
If a person killed a slave, that person was then put to death. (Ex 21:12)
If a person kidnapped a person so as to sell them, they were to be put to death. (Ex 21:16)
If a slave owner does any permanent harm to a slave, the slave was to go free. (Ex 21:26, 27)
Slaves could even eat food meant only for the priest if a priest had a slave. (Lev 22:10, 11)
Women captured in war were either to be cared for by a man that wants them as a wife or they are to be completely let go. They cannot be forced into slavery. (Deut 21:10-14)
On the seventh year of a person's slavery they must be let free if they wish. Every 50 years all slaves must be set free. (Exodus 21:2; Leviticus 25:10; Deuteronomy 15:12)

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 16 by 2timothy316]

He did allow it and still allows it today. Why does that make the Bible imperfect? Because there are imperfect people doing bad things? Why are you blaming a book for an institution that humans created?

Leviticus 25 depicts God as expressly condoning chattel slavery instead of prohibiting it as He did with murder for instance which is also "imperfect people doing bad things". Your argument is specious at best.

Regardless of what your opinion is of slavery during the time of Israel doesn't make the Bible an imperfect book. Slavery happened. It wasn't covered up by Jehovah God either! He let us see Israel with warts and all.

Slavery is alive and kicking today. What is your opinion as to why God allows it today? He has the power to stop it right this moment, right? Does Him not stopping it this very moment mean He condones it?

[otseng]

Given that the majority consensus view on inerrancy only applies to the autographs and does not apply to any translations,
and given that we do not have any autographs and no originals exist,
and given that we only use modern translations,
and given that when we use the term Bible, it is in reference to modern translations that we can hold in our hands,
and given that we consider modern Bible translations to be authoritative,

Therefore, it is not necessary for the Bible to be inerrant while also being authoritative.

[Eloi]

[Replying to Elijah John]

What do you think you are if not the property of your employer? What do you think would happen if employees have no rights and laws to protect them?

That you don't like what you call "the institution of slavery" does not mean that what the Bible says related to slaves in that time is not inspired. In biblical times there were a lot of cultural and sociopolitical aspects and institutions that differ from our modern point of view, but were common for that time.

If the law had not contemplated the treatment of slaves, the Israelites would not have known how to deal with that aspect, treating them as they were treated themselves in Egipt. Jehovah forbade them to treat slaves violently, and although when we read some specific points of the law they seem unorthodox, the truth is that the law made them have a regulation in all aspects of the time that contrasted them very strongly from the rest of the world.

This 2timothy316's post deserves to be repeated:

Slavery allowed some people to recover from poverty. She lost her entire family except her mother-in-law. Ruth is an example of a person that benefited from working Boaz's fields. (Book of Ruth)

There were laws that must be followed for slavery.
They must be allowed to rest and worship. (Ex 20:10)
If a person killed a slave, that person was then put to death. (Ex 21:12)
If a person kidnapped a person so as to sell them, they were to be put to death. (Ex 21:16)
If a slave owner does any permanent harm to a slave, the slave was to go free. (Ex 21:26, 27)
Slaves could even eat food meant only for the priest if a priest had a slave. (Lev 22:10, 11)
Women captured in war were either to be cared for by a man that wants them as a wife or they are to be completely let go. They cannot be forced into slavery. (Deut 21:10-14)
On the seventh year of a person's slavery they must be let free if they wish. Every 50 years all slaves must be set free. (Exodus 21:2; Leviticus 25:10; Deuteronomy 15:12)

Clear enough.

[WeSee]

[Replying to post 21 by 2timothy316]

Chattel slavery is still chattel slavery: Human beings owning other human beings as property. Depicting God as expressly condoning it contradicts passages such as the following:

Matthew 7 
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 
Matthew 22
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.�

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 25 by WeSee]

If you don't like the law that Jehovah gave Moses, the problem is on you, not in the inspiration of the Bible or the divine origen of the Law of Moses.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Yes, it has to be. Otherwise it is essentially the equivalent of just a collection of human ideas untrustworthy, when it comes to the big questions that lay beyond the realms of human experience.


JW

Then you defend Exodus 21.20-21? How?

After you: How do you resolve the fundamental issue raised ? How?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 21 by 2timothy316]

Chattel slavery is still chattel slavery: Human beings owning other human beings as property. Depicting God as expressly condoning it contradicts passages such as the following:

Matthew 7 
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 

Jesus said that the Law that would include the Laws on slavery hung on those words. Do you know what scripture Jesus was quoting here when said, 'you must treat others as yourself? He was quoting Leviticus 19:18.

Matthew 22
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.�

Here he was quoting Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18.


You didn't answer my question. Since slavery still exist today, does that mean God condones it because He has not abolished it? The words Jesus spoke are to be followed, yet we see people not following it. Certainly the same thing happened during the time of the Hebrews. So why does what others do that make the Bible's message imperfect? I cannot grasp why one affects the other.

[WeSee]

[Replying to post 22 by 2timothy316]

Slavery is alive and kicking today...Does Him not stopping it this very moment mean He condones it?

Of course not. Just as with murder.

However Leviticus 25:44-46 depicts God as expressly condoning chattel slavery. It depicts God as expressly giving permission to engage in chattel slavery. For those who include Leviticus 25:44-46 as "the inerrant word of God", it means that God condoned it.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 22 by 2timothy316]

Slavery is alive and kicking today...Does Him not stopping it this very moment mean He condones it?

Of course not. Just as with murder.

However Leviticus 25:44-46 depicts God as expressly condoning chattel slavery. It depicts God as expressly giving permission to engage in chattel slavery. For those who include Leviticus 25:44-46 as "the inerrant word of God", it means that God condoned it.

No it doesn't. It means He allows just as He does today. Only today they certainly do not follow the slavery laws that the Israelites had. See post 21 viewtopic.php?p=985186#985186
Think of the Law of Moses on slavery as the OSHA of today.

We have similar things today like back in Israel. A major one is military service. While a soldier is not considered property. One can't just leave the military when ever they want. They would be considered AWOL and would be tracked down and charged with a crime.

So why does what others do that make the Bible's message imperfect? I cannot grasp why one affects the other.