Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Question: If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins?
None good but God
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Wootah
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None good but God
Post #1Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."-
Eloi
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Post #61
PinSeeker said:
That's kind of akward ... since he said the Father is greater than I am too. It looks that some people don't know how to harmonize Jesus' teachings and arrive to the right conclusion ... or maybe they do know, but don't want to, because those conclusions are not what they want to believe.Very interesting that you quote this verse. Do you think anyone is claiming Jesus is greater than the Father? Surely not... "nor is one that is sent (He, Jesus) greater than the one (the Father) that send Him (Jesus)." But neither is He lesser. This is EXACTLY what Jesus is saying here, that He and the Father are equal in deity.
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Wootah
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Post #62
[Replying to tam]
The whole old testament from Cain giving a bad sacrifice to Leviticus to Jesus is about sacrifices being the first born or first fruits and of best quality, with no blemish.
So if you believe Jesus died for and paid for our sins then a not good or blemished sacrifice is inadequate. Surely you see that?
The whole old testament from Cain giving a bad sacrifice to Leviticus to Jesus is about sacrifices being the first born or first fruits and of best quality, with no blemish.
So if you believe Jesus died for and paid for our sins then a not good or blemished sacrifice is inadequate. Surely you see that?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image
."-
Tcg
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Post #63
This accusation could as easily be made about those on the opposite side of the argument. Doing either of course is unjustified. It's clear that all involved want to understand the issue properly. That's why it is best to stick to the subject at hand rather than impugning the character of fellow posters.Eloi wrote:
... or maybe they do know, but don't want to, because those conclusions are not what they want to believe.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
Post #64
This is a skill reserved for eminent theologians, God's chosen vessels and not to be tried by casual readers of the New Testament.Eloi wrote:
It looks that some people don't know how to harmonize Jesus' teachings and arrive to the right conclusion ...
Take Christ's kind message to the nice thief:
"I tell you, today you'll be with me in Paradise." Or was it,
"I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."
Take the first and go to the big church up the road; take the second and go to the one down the lane. So much for "the right conclusion." Who judges what that is?
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Eloi
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Post #65
It is not necessary to be a theologian to know that from here:
1: John 13:16 (...) not is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him ...
2: John 14:28 (...) the Father is greater than I am
3: John 7:16 (...) What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
... you can not make this conclusion:
Pinseeker:
PD: Why there are some users (specially some non-theistic users like Tcg) trying to divert the topic all the time to how something is said or judging what is said or trying to attack who said it, but don't say a thing about the topic?
1: John 13:16 (...) not is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him ...
2: John 14:28 (...) the Father is greater than I am
3: John 7:16 (...) What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
... you can not make this conclusion:
Pinseeker:
No, there's not need to be a theologian or anything like that; we only need to be honest with ourself to accept the real conclusions ...Eloi:Very interesting that you quote this verse. Do you think anyone is claiming Jesus is greater than the Father? Surely not... "nor is one that is sent (He, Jesus) greater than the one (the Father) that send Him (Jesus)." But neither is He lesser. This is EXACTLY what Jesus is saying here, that He and the Father are equal in deity.John 13:16 Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him.
PD: Why there are some users (specially some non-theistic users like Tcg) trying to divert the topic all the time to how something is said or judging what is said or trying to attack who said it, but don't say a thing about the topic?
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Tcg
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Post #66
How does being "honest with ourself" help determine whether or not Jesus should be considered God?Eloi wrote:
No, there's not need to be a theologian or anything like that; we only need to be honest with ourself to accept the real conclusions ...
How does one "accept the real conclusion", when quite clearly there is a great deal of confusion as to what that might be?
I'd suggest that the Bible hasn't made the "real conclusion" obvious. If it had, there would be no need for the many discussions attempting to determine what the Bible teaches in this matter.
Obviously, many honest people hope to reach the right conclusion, but it is not an easy task.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Post #67
I supported what I said in the context I said it. Not need to say nonsenses only to generate conflicts in the forum. What is said is supported.
From here:
From here:
... you can not make this conclusion:1: John 13:16 (...) not is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him ...
2: John 14:28 (...) the Father is greater than I am
3: John 7:16 (...) What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.
No, there's not need to be a theologian or anything like that; we only need to be honest with ourself to accept the real conclusions ...Pinseeker:Very interesting that you quote this verse. Do you think anyone is claiming Jesus is greater than the Father? Surely not... "nor is one that is sent (He, Jesus) greater than the one (the Father) that send Him (Jesus)." But neither is He lesser. This is EXACTLY what Jesus is saying here, that He and the Father are equal in deity.Eloi:
John 13:16 Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him.
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Tcg
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Post #68
Eloi wrote: I supported what I said in the context I said it. Not need to say nonsenses only to generate conflicts in the forum. What is said is supported.
... you can not make this conclusion:1: John 13:16 (...) not is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him ...
2: John 14:28 (...) the Father is greater than I am
3: John 7:16 (...) What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 He that speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but he that seeks the glory of him that sent him, this one is true, and there is no unrighteousness in him.No, there's not need to be a theologian or anything like that; we only need to be honest with ourself to accept the real conclusions ...Pinseeker:Very interesting that you quote this verse. Do you think anyone is claiming Jesus is greater than the Father? Surely not... "nor is one that is sent (He, Jesus) greater than the one (the Father) that send Him (Jesus)." But neither is He lesser. This is EXACTLY what Jesus is saying here, that He and the Father are equal in deity.Eloi:
John 13:16 Most truly I say to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master, nor is one that is sent forth greater than the one that sent him.
Simply repeating yourself doesn't answer how being "honest with ourself" aids in determining if Jesus should be considered God. Perhaps it is a claim you can't support with verifiable evidence.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Tcg
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Post #70
I'll eagerly await your answer. Given that you have promised to provide it, I have no doubt you'll do so, eventually.Eloi wrote: [Replying to Tcg]
Another day I'll answer your doubt to help you.
I have other things to do now. Have a good day.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
