Why do we pray?

[marco]

We hear of angels forever praising God, which suggests a horrible existence. Jesus told us to point out, when we pray, that God is in heaven and request bread on a daily basis as well as forgiveness for anything we do wrong.

As an example of prayer we can look at the prayers offered to God in the Holocaust. Were they answered, and if not, what was the point? Perhaps prayer is best when it coincidentally hits a success button: we want sun and we get it.

Has prayer a purpose?

Is it just a waste of time?

[Diagoras]

Has prayer a purpose?

According to James, at least one purpose seems to be a form of universal healthcare:

5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I recently posted in Current Events about a serious measles outbreak in Samoa. One contributing factor in the rapid spread of the disease appears to have been a reliance on prayer (and ‘traditional medicine’) instead of vaccination for some people. Maybe the more rationally-thinking folk just prayed for getting vaccinated?

I suppose if James was only referring to people who were ‘sick in spirit’, that might explain why modern cancer drugs and surgery have a better treatment success rate than prayers and a priestly oiling.

[Zzyzx]

.

Has prayer a purpose?

It can serve to give people 'hope' for improvement in circumstances.

Is it just a waste of time?

Probably. The time might be better used to actually do something to improve conditions.

"Sending thoughts and prayers" = doing nothing constructive (but pretending to contribute).

[1213]

…That is very noble, and perhaps cautious, 1213. In what way would God's will NOT happen in your life? …

God’s will is for example that people love others. People can choose not to do so and then God’s will doesn’t happen in that. On the other hand, God’s will is that we can choose freely and so God’s will happen, if we choose. So, perhaps I was not clear enough with my previous message. What I ask is that things go as God thinks is the best.

… Some poor souls have more than their fair share of the former: in what way should they pray? Would it make the slightest difference?

I think it depends on what is prayed. In my experience prayer seems to make difference, but I understand also that one could easily say it is just coincidence. Actually, I think there is nothing that could be prayed and received that could not be claimed to be something other than meaningful prayer. Even if I would pray what you want and t would happen as you want, it probably would not make any meaningful difference. Therefore, I think this is quite pointless.

[1213]

…Is there a purpose in thanking him? Does it empower him? Boost his ego?

If someone thanks you, does it boost your ego? Does it empower you?

So is there a chance that his will will not happen in your life?
How does he ensure his will happens without violating your freewill?

If I ask that things go as God wants, then I think my and God’s will are the same and it doesn’t mean that I have lost my freedom. Also, I think in a way God’s will always happens, but in this I meant that I ask that things go as God thinks is the best. Sorry that I was not clear in that previous post.

[marco]

[Replying to post 9 by OnceConvinced]

Perhaps from the beginning of time, Adam excluded, prayer was a sign of human helplessness. It can't do any harm to ask the gods and if they say "No" we're in no worse position. Statistically they said "Yes" with the appropriate frequency and so gods stayed with us, and still do.

Jesus is the name given to a new car, a longed-for baby or the disappearance of Uncle's Bob's cough. In many ways we are still delightfully Neanderthal.

[marco]

God’s will is for example that people love others.

Then I think atheists carry out God's will admirably.

What I ask is that things go as God thinks is the best.

If God wished this then presumably we'd all be in love with each other. The world is as God made it.

I think it depends on what is prayed. In my experience prayer seems to make difference, but I understand also that one could easily say it is just coincidence.

My mother always gets her prayers answered since she's endlessly thanking God for this or that, even for her heretic son. I suspect she thinks it is God who drives her to church and not me. Such is the power of prayer. Go well. I hope God is being kind to Finland with his weather allocation.

[1213]

…
If God wished this then presumably we'd all be in love with each other. The world is as God made it.

It seems to me that God wishes people choose freely. Unfortunately, many choose darkness, not love.

… I hope God is being kind to Finland with his weather allocation.

Thank you, I think we have very nice weather all the time.

[marco]

…
If God wished this then presumably we'd all be in love with each other. The world is as God made it.

Those who do not acknowledge a god do experience love and kindness and generosity and peace and forgiveness. Atheists bleed when you prick them, 1213, and rush to help others in need. Very often the coldest responses come from those who call themselves Christian. We are all human, and it is our humanity that matters, the way we treat our brothers and sisters.

[bluegreenearth]

Has prayer a purpose?

Is it just a waste of time?

Apparently, the purpose of prayer is to serve as a vehicle for Christian confirmation bias. When the outcome is favorable, the prayer is credited as confirming the Christian's belief in the existence of God. When the desired outcome does not materialize as expected, the unanswered prayer confirms the Christian's belief that the request must not have been in accordance with God's will. I'm unaware of any example that a Christian will accept as confirmation that prayer does not work. Therefore, from the Christian's perspective, the claim that God answers prayer is unfalsifiable. As such, Christians have no mechanism by which they can determine if God was actually responsible for the outcome of a prayer or if confirmation bias was actually responsible for their perception that a prayer request was answered by God.

If Christians are able to respond to this post with a description of what they will accept as evidence against their belief that has God answered their prayers, I will be very appreciative. If Christians are unable to respond with the requested information, then they should be intellectually honest and responsibly acknowledge where their unfalsifiable claims about answered prayers only serve as evidence of confirmation bias and not the existence of God. Thanks.

[Goose]

When the outcome is favorable, the prayer is credited as confirming the Christian's belief in the existence of God.

Sure, but the belief in God is often held independently of beliefs about answered prayer.

When the desired outcome does not materialize as expected, the unanswered prayer confirms the Christian's belief that the request must not have been in accordance with God's will.

That’s a fair assessment.

When a prayer is answered Christians believe God has said, yes.

When a prayer is not answered Christians believe God has said, no.

I'm unaware of any example that a Christian will accept as confirmation that prayer does not work.

How about when God says “no� to a prayer? Wouldn’t that imply prayer did not work at least in that case?

Therefore, from the Christian's perspective, the claim that God answers prayer is unfalsifiable.

Correct. The Christian view of prayer is unfalsifiable. Is there something wrong with holding an unfalsifiable belief?

As such, Christians have no mechanism by which they can determine if God was actually responsible for the outcome of a prayer or if confirmation bias was actually responsible for their perception that a prayer request was answered by God.

We could use the mechanism of reasoning to determine if God was responsible for the outcome.

If Christians are able to respond to this post with a description of what they will accept as evidence against their belief that has God answered their prayers, I will be very appreciative.

I will accept evidence that God does not exist as evidence against my belief that God answers prayer.

If Christians are unable to respond with the requested information, then they should be intellectually honest and responsibly acknowledge where their unfalsifiable claims about answered prayers only serve as evidence of confirmation bias and not the existence of God. Thanks.

Well I responded with the requested information. So now what?