Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?

[2timothy316]

There are some that refuse to accept that Jesus is God based on their beliefs. Yet many of these people still celebrate Christmas. So, is Christmas an act of worship to Jesus? If it is, then why would a person that doesn't accept Jesus as God worship Jesus?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 50 by marco]

We all know your opinion, Marco. It's quite in error, but you are more than welcome to it. One day you will see, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

Wha t their specific resultant celebration actions are is their choice, which may or may not include any of those you listed.

Are you claimjng any of those things or other actions associated with celebrating Christmas* listed have a basis in scripture?

No, other than "exchanging of presents".

Are you suggesting the basis for Christmas is the Jewish festival of Purim?

No.

May grace and peace be to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 52 by Checkpoint]

Then what practices are you claiming are based in scripture? I recognise exchanging presents has scriptural pprecedent but atheists and Satanists no doubt give presents, would they be "celebrating Christmas" every time they give a friend a present?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 47 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint, do you know what the star actually was? It was nothing to celebrate. I think you are a person who examines things, and I'm a bit surprised that you haven't thought about this star, more than the cursory glance that Christendom has given it.

The "three wise men" were (1) astrologers, and (2) could have been more than three. They are not numbered.

The practice of astrology is condemned in the Bible (Deut.18:10-12), so it's a no-brainer that these "wise men" were not worshippers of YHWH. Would God have led to the newborn Jesus people who practiced things that He condemned?

Check this out---The star led the astrologers first to KING HEROD (Matthew 2:1-16). Herod wanted to kill Jesus! They then went to find Jesus, and the "star" stopped right above where he was. Was that truly a star, and was it benevolent? (No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star.") YHWH warned Joseph to get down to Egypt to take the little boy out of harm's way. So the question to consider is: Was the "star" a sign from God, or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's Son destroyed?

Is this something you want to include in your celebration of the good things of Christmas?



(I also question the practice of gift-giving [and receiving] associated with Christmas. The astrologers GAVE gifts but didn't receive any, so "exchanging gifts" isn't a factor for defending the celebration. People can GIVE gifts at any time of the year, and I and my friends do that, a lot.)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 52 by Checkpoint]

Then what practices are you claiming are based in scripture?

I am responding to the disclaims being made.

You have acknowledged hymns and exchanging presents, plus the Gospel narratives. Good for you, thankyou.

It is enough. It should be enough. But it isn't for some.

Instead you keep on, asking for more. And more. And yet more. And yet more still! Why then are you never satisfied?

I recognise exchanging presents has scriptural pprecedent but atheists and Satanists no doubt give presents, would they be "celebrating Christmas" every time they give a friend a present?

"What is that to you?"

May you enjoy grace and peace.

;''';''

[JehovahsWitness]

"What is that to you?"

I was simply asking for some scripture to support the view that Christmas celebrations have a basis in scripture. Excellent commentaries have been posted on the subject ...

There is a lot of information concerning birthdays. Referring to the first three centuries of "Christianity," it is said: "The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general." (The History of the Christian Religion and Church (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander, (translated by Henry John Rose), p.190.)

Another reference work said this about the Jews: "Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with the times." (The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p.225)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia tells us, about Christmas:

"The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month....According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener...and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the dates of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti---birthday of the invincible sun." (1967, Vol.III, p.656)


We could go on and on, but this suffices to show us that yes, maybe Christ's birth is recorded in the Gospels, but that doesn't constitute a reason to make it into a celebration that Jesus himself didn't celebrate. Nothing is said of the day or month. Why would we want to hang pagan tags on it and agree with their rituals involving Mithras and Saturn and whatever else the Romans worshipped

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CHRISTMAS , .EASTER and ... HALLOWEEN

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 47 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint, do you know what the star actually was? It was nothing to celebrate. I think you are a person who examines things, and I'm a bit surprised that you haven't thought about this star, more than the cursory glance that Christendom has given it.

The "three wise men" were (1) astrologers, and (2) could have been more than three. They are not numbered.

The practice of astrology is condemned in the Bible (Deut.18:10-12), so it's a no-brainer that these "wise men" were not worshippers of YHWH. Would God have led to the newborn Jesus people who practiced things that He condemned?

Hold on(and/or hold off)a minute, onewithhim!

Your question was based on the accuracy of what you had just written.

Being, as you say, "a person who examines things" I have done just that, and what did I find?

These two sources:

HELPS Word-studies


3097 mágos (plural, magi) – properly, belonging to "the Magoi, a Median tribe (so Herodotus); a Magian, one of a sacred caste, originally Median, who seem to have conformed to the Persian religion, while retaining some of their old beliefs (v. DB, I vol., 565 f.; DB, iii, 203 ff.)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3097: μάγοςm,mmm,m

μάγος, μαγου, � (Hebrew מַג, plural מָגִי�; a word of Indo-Germanic origin; cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus, ii., p. 786; J. G. Müller in Herzog viii., p. 678; (Vanicek, Fremdwörter, under the word; but the word is now regarded by many as of Babylonian origin; see Schrader, Keilinschriften as above with 2te Aufl., p. 417ff)); from Sophocles and Herodotus down; the Sept. Daniel 2:2 and several times in Theod. ad Dan. for �ַשָ�ף; a magus; the name given by the Babylonians (Chaldaeans), Medes, Persians, and others, to the wise men, teachers, priests, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, augurs, soothsayers, sorcerers etc.

The name "magi" is applicable to any one group listed, to any grouping of them, or to all 10 listed.

Who and why God chooses to do or experience anything, is His business. Often He doesn't tell us why. We can sometimes draw conclusions, but they may fall short.

As far as we are concerned, it is up to us to reread the text, to translate key words correctly, and then to grasp the message being conveyed, taking care to "not go beyond what is written".

To say those particular magi were "astrologers", or to so translate, is to go well beyond.

More tomorrow.

May you enjoy grace and peace every day.

[brianbbs67]

Happy Kwanza Y'all! There is no Yeshua/jesus/IEOUS in christmas. Which maybe why it was outlawed numerous times in the past. The Christmas most celebrate is wholly based on Saternalia and the Sol Invictus worship. You can't put a God stamp on things and call them Godly.

Its sad really. Completely made up. Just like Kwanza. Really Kwanza is probably spiritually purer as I don't believe pagan worship practices were involved.

The first thing most must understand is holiday is Holy Day. Only God can make those. And He didn't make this one.

[Checkpoint]

(This post is to onewithim but is absent most lines.

I will thus have to do a replacement one.)




I've failed to locate it here, so could you please do so for me?

Just tell me the number and which thread it is on.
Another post will be on its way to you asap.

May grace and peace be your constant experience.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 47 by Checkpoint]

Checkpoint, do you know what the star actually was? It was nothing to celebrate. I think you are a person who examines things, and I'm a bit surprised that you haven't thought about this star, more than the cursory glance that Christendom has given it.

The "three wise men" were (1) astrologers, and (2) could have been more than three. They are not numbered.

The practice of astrology is condemned in the Bible (Deut.18:10-12), so it's a no-brainer that these "wise men" were not worshippers of YHWH. Would God have led to the newborn Jesus people who practiced things that He condemned?

Hold on(and/or hold off)a minute, onewithhim!

Your question was based on the accuracy of what you had just written.

Being, as you say, "a person who examines things" I have done just that, and what did I find?

These two sources:

HELPS Word-studies


3097 mágos (plural, magi) – properly, belonging to "the Magoi, a Median tribe (so Herodotus); a Magian, one of a sacred caste, originally Median, who seem to have conformed to the Persian religion, while retaining some of their old beliefs (v. DB, I vol., 565 f.; DB, iii, 203 ff.)

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 3097: μάγοςm,mmm,m

μάγος, μαγου, � (Hebrew מַג, plural מָגִי�; a word of Indo-Germanic origin; cf. Gesenius, Thesaurus, ii., p. 786; J. G. Müller in Herzog viii., p. 678; (Vanicek, Fremdwörter, under the word; but the word is now regarded by many as of Babylonian origin; see Schrader, Keilinschriften as above with 2te Aufl., p. 417ff)); from Sophocles and Herodotus down; the Sept. Daniel 2:2 and several times in Theod. ad Dan. for �ַשָ�ף; a magus; the name given by the Babylonians (Chaldaeans), Medes, Persians, and others, to the wise men, teachers, priests, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, augurs, soothsayers, sorcerers etc.

The name "magi" is applicable to any one group listed, to any grouping of them, or to all 10 listed.

Who and why God chooses to do or experience anything, is His business. Often He doesn't tell us why. We can sometimes draw conclusions, but they may fall short.

As far as we are concerned, it is up to us to reread the text, to translate key words correctly, and then to grasp the message being conveyed, taking care to "not go beyond what is written".

To say those particular magi were "astrologers", or to so translate, is to go well beyond.

More tomorrow.

May you enjoy grace and peace every day.

Checkpoint, I have to ask you if you are all right. You said that "to say those particular magi were 'astrologers' is to go well beyond what is written." Yet in your research references it is clearly stated that "magus [is] the name given by the Babylonians, Medes, Persians, and others, to the wise men, teachers, priests, physicians, astrologers, seers, interpreters of dreams, augurs, soothsayers, sorcerers, etc....The name 'magi' is applicable to any one group listed, to any grouping of them, or to all ten listed."

It looks to me like you have shown exactly what I was saying. My saying those particular magi were astrologers does not go well beyond what is written, and the fact that they were led straight to Herod seems to confirm this viewpoint, wouldn't you say?

The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary says this about the magi:

"The magi were originally a religious caste among the Persians. Their devotion to astrology, divination, and the interpretation of dreams led to the extension in the meaning of the word, and by the first century the terms 'magi' and 'Chaldean' were applied generally to fortune tellers and the exponents of esoteric religious cults throughout the Mediterranean world. Magus is, for example, the epithet of the charlatan Simon of Acts 8:9. The term is translated sorcerer in Acts 13:6,8."

So I would say that calling those magi "astrologers" is really not going beyond the things written. My point stands.


I still am looking forward to your further comments on my posts # 42 & 54.