Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Comprehend

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Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Comprehend

Post #1

Post by Danmark »

This debate topic suggests that the Jehovah's Witnesses and their leader Charles Haze Russell, are emblematic of the failure of Christian doctrine to be coincident with truth.
Russell predicted the end times, calling it the 'End of the Harvest,' that it would happen in 1874.
Crompton, Robert (1996). Counting the Days to Armageddon. Cambridge: James Clarke & Co. pp. 21, 31.
This time came and went with no such event, and several revisions were made. Russell confessed this failure and wrote:
"Coming to the spring of 1878 ... we naturally and not unreasonably expected some change of our condition, and all were more or less disappointed when nothing supernatural occurred. But our disappointment was brief, for we noticed ... [whatever]."
Cast Not Away Therefore Your Confidence", Zion's Watch Tower, February 1881.
Other predictions were made and never came to pass, but this has not impacted the faithful.
I suggest this is but one example among many of false predictions that do not deter false beliefs because false beliefs rest on nonsense rather than fact.

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #2

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can say we do not consider Charles Russell, who died over 100 years ago, to be our leader and he himself never claimed such a position. Our leader has and always will be Christ.

As for the interpretations mentioned in the OP, Russell was indeed wrong. And yes, nearly all Christian groups and many individuals have one time or another have either wrongly interpreted the numerous time prophecies in the bible (like Russell and other prominent Jehovahs Witnesses*) or made incorrect predictions. Jehovahs Witnesses are no exception although unlike Catholics they lay no claim to infallibility and do not claim to be prophets.

* prior to 1931 "Jehovahs Witnesses" were simply known as "Bible Students" (IBSA)

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Further Reading: Blog on Charles Russell
http://pastorrussell.blogspot.fr/

DOCU-DRAMA Charles Russell & Origins of the modern day organization of JW
[youtube][/youtube]



RELATED POSTS : CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL
Did Charles Russell correctly identify 1914 as being a time of global troubles?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 159#891159

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe Charles Taze Russell was infallible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 789#864789

Did Russell teach he had more authority than the bible? (historia)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 342#778342

Did Russell claim Jesus would return invisibly only AFTER his prediction in this regard failed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 141#891141

Do JWs view a 1914 "parousia" a "failed prediction"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 933#917933

Do modern day Witnesses try and "distance themselves" from Russell and his mistakes?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 829#993829

How do Jehovahs Witnesses feel about their past mistakes and doctrinal changes and adjustments?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 821#862821
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:35 am, edited 9 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #3

Post by Danmark »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can say we do not consider Charles Russell, who died over 100 years ago, to be our leader and he himself never claimed such a position. Our leader has and always will be Christ.

As for the interpretations mentioned oin the OP, Russell was indeed wrong. And yes, nearly all Christian groups and many individuals have one time or another have either wrongly interpreted the numerous time prophecies in the bible or made incorrect predictions. Jehovahs Witnesses are no exception although unlike Catholics they lay no claim to infallibility and do not claim to be Prophets.



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RELATED POSTS

Did Charles Russell correctly identify 1914 as being a time of global troubles?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 159#891159

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe Charles Taze Russell was infallible?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 789#864789

Did Russell claim Jesus would return invisibly only AFTER his prediction in this regard failed?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 141#891141
This is exactly the kind of baloney the Mormons indulge in. Their leaders and originators come up with a load of codswallop, the gullible follow it for a hundred years, then modify it when the nonsense starts to stink and fall of its own weight. One day you preach the 'eternal truth.' The next day 'the truth' is revised. :) How can anyone believe such religious blarney?
Last edited by Danmark on Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #5

Post by Danmark »

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can say we do not consider Charles Russell, who died over 100 years ago, to be our leader and he himself never claimed such a position. Our leader has and always will be Christ.

As for the interpretations mentioned oin the OP, Russell was indeed wrong. And yes, nearly all Christian groups and many individuals have one time or another have either wrongly interpreted the numerous time prophecies in the bible
[emphasis applied]
Exactly my point. And 100 years from now J.W.'s will be saying you were wrong in 2020.

"The eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses is central to their religious beliefs. They believe that Jesus Christ has been ruling in heaven as king since 1914 (a date they believe was prophesied in Scripture), and that after that time a period of cleansing occurred, resulting in God's selection of the Bible Students associated with Charles Taze Russell to be his people in 1919. They also believe the destruction of those who reject their message and thus willfully refuse to obey God will shortly take place at Armageddon, ensuring that the beginning of the new earthly society will be composed of willing subjects of that kingdom."

"The House-to-House Ministry—Why Important Now?". The Watchtower: 5–6. July 15, 2008.
"You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth," Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1989, p. 155.
"Revelation—Its Grand Climax at Hand," Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1988, p. 6.


BTW the JW's like to claim Isaac Newton, who preceded them by about 200 years. This is typical of their scholarship and claim to adhere to facts. Many have disputed the non Biblical claim of the 'Trinity.' This is not exclusive to the JW's.

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Post #6

Post by Danmark »

The group now known as the Jehovah's Witnesses was founded in 1879 by Charles Taze Russell, a Pennsylvania businessman. Russell's Adventist background and study of the Bible led him to conclude, among other things, that the second coming of Christ would occur in 1914, that Hellfire did not exist, and God was not a Trinity.
http://www.religionfacts.com/jehovahs-witnesses/history

Yes, the JW's try to distance themselves from Russell and their own history, to no avail:

The modern-day organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower—Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.
Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower...

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/founder/
:)

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Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DO MODERN DAY JEHOVAHS WITNESSES TRY TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL?

♦ANSWER No, Jehovah's Witnesses fully recognize Charles Taze Russell as being instrumental in the reemergence of organizational truth . We have produced a number of documentaries and historical reportss fully embrassing Russell as a the first President of the Watchtower & Tract Society and a trail blazer for the return to biblical teachings. That said we do not hold him as a prophet, nor believe he was infallible. You will find no statues, monuments or memorials dedicated to him at our places of worship, but the fact that we dont worship him doesn't equate to trying to "distance ourselves" from him. We view him and all the bible students from that time as brothers in arms, beloved fellow witnesses of Jehovah.

Like all humans he made mistakes but we believe Russell and his associates, as the first "Jehovahs Witnesses" of our modern (20th century) era, played a huge role in God's purpose and we modern day Witnesses are deeply appreciatiative of their efforts. We believe God reveals spiritual understanding progressivly and those early witnesses forged ahead with the knowledge they had back them, like the pioneers they were. We have simply continued in the tradition they established namely of holding scripture authorative and humbly trying to see what it has to say for our times.
If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants -

SIR ISAAC NEWTON
Russell himself openly acknowledged many of his findings were not unique and openly expressed his gratitude to the studies of earlier bible students who had reexamined the question of the trinity, immortality of the soul and hellfire. We believe however that it was the zealous integrity with which Russell and his contemporaries were wiling to preach the word as well as their humble willingness to learn from their mistakes that lead to them alone to being chosen by Christ (around the year 1919) as the "faithful and discreet slave" (a composite body of men that would serve as the channel through which Christ would reorganize, lead and further instruct his people - see Mat 24:45).
CONCLUSION Jehovahs Witnesses are very proud of what we refer to as our "theocratic history" (our cultural heritage) in which Russell, Rutherford and all those early bible students played central roles and don't believe this imposes the dichotomy of denying the errors they made.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS


Further Reading: Blog on Charles Russell
http://pastorrussell.blogspot.fr/
To learn more go to other posts related to...

CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL ,JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , and ...FAILED PREDICTIONS,
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Danmark wrote:
BTW the JW's like to claim Isaac Newton, who preceded them by about 200 years. This is typical of their scholarship and claim to adhere to facts.
I have absolutely no idea what it means to "claim Isaac Newton". We claim he existed (which is in line with historical facts) but Jehovahs Witnesses have never claimed Newton was one of Jehovah's Witnesses or a member of their organisation (which didn't even exist at the time) if thats what is being implied.

Sir Isaac Newton PRS (1642 – 1726) was an English mathematician, physicist, astronomer, theologian, and author (described in his own day as a "natural philosopher") who is widely recognised as one of the most influential scientists of all time and as a key figure in the scientific revolution.

Source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton

Why do Jehovahs Witnesses literature refer to Newton?
  • Jehovahs Witnesses have published articles on a wide range of subjects and quote a vast number of experts on various topics, including biology, cosmology and physics. Newton, who is sometimes refered to as one of the fathers of modern physics in western culture, naturally figures in some of these articles.

    Further it is perhaps a lesser known fact that Isaac Newton was also a theologian* who had a high regard for the bible. He wrote a number of papers on bible theology and prophecy and came to some conclusions that mirror those of Jehovahs Witneses today. See below for details...
    http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 836#993836
* by one anaysis Newton in fact wrote more on theology than he did on science.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Charles Haze Russell- Example of Man's Failure to Compre

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[continued from post #8 by JehovahsWitness above....]

QUOTATIONS ATTRIBUTED TO ISAAC NEWTON

Image

THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
“It is not to be conceived that mere mechanical causes could give birth to so many regular motions. . . . this most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being. - Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, 1687.
Was the eye contrived without skill in optics, or the ear without knowledge of sounds? . . . And these things being rightly despatched, does it not appear from phenomena that there is a being incorporeal, living, intelligent?� - idem
“In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God’s existence.�
THE BIBLE
“I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatever.� - � see Two Apologies, by R. Watson, London, 1820, p. 57 ​
“No sciences are better attested to than the Bible.�
THE TRINITY
“Homoousion [the doctrine that the Son is of the same substance as the Father] is unintelligible. ’Twas not understood in the Council of Nice, nor ever since. What cannot be understood is no object of belief.� - Sir Isaac Newton Theological Manuscripts, p. 17.
A PARADIES ON EARTH
“The earth shall continue to be inhabited by mortals after the day of judgment and that not only for a 1000 years but even for ever.�
THE SANCTITY OF BLOOD
“... this law of abstaining from blood, and things strangled [was] imposed not on the sons of Abraham only, but on all nations.� - The Chronology of Antient Kingdoms Amended, by Sir Isaac Newton, Dublin, 1728, page 184.
PUBLIC PREACHING
The palm-bearing multitude, which come out of this great tribulation, cannot be innumerable out of all nations, unless they be made so by the preaching of the Gospel before it comes.� - Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St. John, 1733


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Does the bible speak about science?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #10

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