Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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Jagella
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Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Post #1

Post by Jagella »

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:
Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."
The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

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Post #41

Post by Tcg »

otseng wrote:
Tcg wrote: This type of therapy is harmful even if an individual chooses it voluntarily and therefore should not be practiced.
Lots of things can cause harm, even though people voluntarily choose to do them. Should we then ban everything that has the potential to cause harm?
Conversion therapy is known to cause harm. That which is presented to be beneficial and is in fact harmful should be banned. Thankfully that process has started.

Should we support therapy which is known to cause harm?


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Post #42

Post by FWI »

Jagella wrote:Do you support Christian hatred for gays?


No, I do not and neither does God! The term hatred can be defined as an angry feeling of extreme dislike for someone or something, which is the opposite of love. So, it seems clear that hatred for the human being, as a creation of God is against the will of God and His begotten Son…However, certain actions that human beings engage in is what God, His Son and those who accept His will should have an extreme dislike for and there are good reasons for this.

Therefore, with this in mind; the knock on S.O.C.E. (sexual orientation change efforts) seems to be without real merit. Sure, there may have been some "past abuses" in this area, but these for the most part have been eradicated and educational methods is what's prominent today. Somewhat, the same for similar abuses, which have been documented in other types of psychotherapy treatments in the past! Yet, the most egregious practice is promoting and passing laws that would prevent willing participants from seeking the help that they want…Now, this would surely seem to be against the rights of an individual! So, is it true that any attempt to change sexual orientation has no medical or scientific basis? Well, even the APA (American Psychological Association) is reluctant to put its weight behind such a claim. While, they strongly oppose sexual orientation change efforts, the worst criticism that it can make is that there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation. Yet, insufficient evidence is not evidence that all attempts to change are false, deceptive or a sham scientifically. Where, the term insufficient evidence seems to be a one-way street in this and many other issues.

Hence, without any psychotherapy treatments, the listed below information from S.A.V.E. (suicide awareness voices of education) and the CDC (Centers of Disease Control) shows the reality of attempted suicides among certain minors:

* Lesbian, gay, and bisexual kids are 3x more likely than straight kids to attempt suicide at some point in their lives.
* Medically serious attempts at suicide are 4x more likely among LGBTQ youth than other young people.
* Of all the suicide attempts made by youths, LGB youth suicide attempts were almost 5x as likely to require medical treatment, than those of heterosexual youth.
* Suicide attempts by LGB youths and questioning youths are 4x to 6x more likely to result in injury, poisoning, or overdose, which requires treatment from a doctor or nurse, compared to their straight peers.

So, it seems apparent that the reality of attempted suicides (among minors) is much higher for LGBTQ individuals than straight ones (without any outside intervention)…Hence, with the available (factual and not presumed) information, it would only make sense that a concerned parent, who had a LGBTQ minor child, would attempt to change the odds of their children attempting and maybe succeeding in taking their own lives. I certainly would consider it, if I was in their position…

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Post #43

Post by Jagella »

otseng wrote:
What do you mean by not approving of homosexual sex? Do you think gay sex should be outlawed?
I'm against divorce and premarital sex also, but those are not outlawed.
Let's be respectful and answer each other's questions. In what way do you disapprove of homosexual sex? Should gay sex be outlawed?
Do yo repudiate the law in Leviticus 20:13 that prescribes death for men caught in homosexual acts?
I know of no Christian that is actively pursuing the death sentence for anyone engaging in homosexual acts.
Again, let's be civil and answer the other's questions. Do you repudiate the law in Leviticus 20:13 mandating the execution of men caught in a homosexual act? Yes or no? If not, then we can see exactly where persecution of gays has its basis. If millions of people in our society base their morality on the Bible, then we should not be surprised that innocent people are persecuted for no good reason.
...what I would be against is demanding any church to perform same-sex marriages if the church believes it is wrong.
In that case gays should not attend such a church. Heterosexuals shouldn't attend it either.
Most of social problems is a result of not realizing and admitting to being in sin.
I can cite the point made in the Scientific American article that calling homosexuality a sin has resulted in many gays committing suicide. That's but one of very many social problems caused by Christian beliefs. Now, what example can you post in which a person not realizing she is "in sin" causes social problems? Yes, there are obvious instances in which behavior is detrimental to society, but I don't need the Christian idea of sin to recognize those problems. The concept of sin was made up by people who did not necessarily have the better interests of others in mind.
In God's eyes we are all equally moral failures.
Well then God is wrong.
Who decides what should be allowed?
The FDA needs to decide what medical procedures are to be allowed. In addition to anti-gay therapy, it should also ban faith healing. The public health is being jeopardized by Christianity.

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Post #44

Post by JehovahsWitness »

SHOULD CHRISTIANS NOT REPUDIATE LEVITICUS 20:13 ?
REPUDIATE

1. refuse to accept; reject.

2. deny the truth or validity of.
Few Christians I know believe they are asked to accept the Mosiac law as presently in force, some however choose to deny it ever was or if it was, claim that it was not God ordained. However the Mosaic law is part of the bible canon and as such, many hold to be the word of God. I believe the "validity" of the Torah lies impart in its divine origin as well as its practical and moral excellence and as such I for one refuse to "repudiate" (as in reject its truth or validity) any part of it.



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Post #45

Post by benchwarmer »

FWI wrote: So, it seems apparent that the reality of attempted suicides (among minors) is much higher for LGBTQ individuals than straight ones (without any outside intervention)…Hence, with the available (factual and not presumed) information, it would only make sense that a concerned parent, who had a LGBTQ minor child, would attempt to change the odds of their children attempting and maybe succeeding in taking their own lives. I certainly would consider it, if I was in their position…
Are you actually suggesting that it's the sexual orientation of the minor that is the real problem? If not, then I have no quarrel, but don't understand your point.

If so, then this is ludicrous. What do you think the root problem is? The sexual orientation or the societal pressure (primarily stemming from religious ideas) that not being straight is 'bad' and thus causes stress, anxiety, etc for the minor who happens to not be straight?

Are these minors attempting suicide because they are attracted to others or because they are under peer pressure to be straight? I don't know about you, but I remember well the pressures of being a teen and trying to fit in. Thus it seems obvious the root of the problem is actually societal pressure (real or perceived) by the minors in question. They are tired of the abuse (verbal and physical), threats, put downs, looks of derision, shaming, "God doesn't approve of this", etc.

Clearly it's not the sexual orientation that is the problem. The problem is that some individuals take their moral guidance from ancient texts with no verifiable link to any actual authority on the matter and then proceed to spread their ideas as 'facts'. If enough people tell you that you are sinning mortally and back this up with threats, etc. you have a hard time enjoying your life.

Rather than trying to "re-educate" LGBTQ individuals, I think we should be putting a massive effort into re-educating the public based on actual facts not religious baloney with no support other than 'well, it's written in this book'.

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Post #46

Post by SallyF »

[Replying to post 39 by otseng]
I know of no Christian that is actively pursuing the death sentence for anyone engaging in homosexual acts.
Image

On this site we are not permitted to say that anyone who identifies as Christian is not Christian.

This charming young person - to the best of my knowledge - identifies as Christian, and I expect that the rest of his family do too.

Jesus COULD sort it all out …

But he walked (or ascended) off the job nearly 2,000 years ago and hasn't been heard of (except in the minds of believers) since.
"God" … just whatever humans imagine it to be.

"Scripture" … just whatever humans write it to be.

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Post #47

Post by Jagella »

JehovahsWitness wrote: SHOULD CHRISTIANS NOT REPUDIATE LEVITICUS 20:13 ?
REPUDIATE

1. refuse to accept; reject.

2. deny the truth or validity of.
Few Christians I know believe they are asked to accept the Mosiac law as presently in force, some however choose to deny it ever was or if it was, claim that it was not God ordained. However the Mosaic law is part of the bible canon and as such, many hold to be the word of God. I believe the "validity" of the Torah lies impart in its divine origin as well as its practical and moral excellence and as such I for one refuse to "repudiate" (as in reject its truth or validity) any part of it.
Two of my brothers are gay. I don't think it would be "moral excellence" for them to be put to death. If I was a Biblical dogmatist, I would need to accept the Bible's barbarism without thinking. As a free-thinking atheist, I can see how terrible the Bible can be and say so. I see my free thought as a big advantage over Bibliolators.

This problem of demanding the Bible be seen as good goes beyond Christianity or even beyond religion in general. When people have some idea that they see as of utmost importance, then all else is secondary, and that includes the welfare and safety of other people. When the drive for utopia is on the line, we may sacrifice the lives of others to try to attain eternal lives for ourselves.

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Post #48

Post by otseng »

Jagella wrote: In what way do you disapprove of homosexual sex? Should gay sex be outlawed?
Do you mean why do I disapprove of homosexual sex? Well, the Bible condemns it so I don't approve of it. But what I believe about homosexual sex is not really that important. The OP is if I support Christian hatred for gays. I do not support hatred of gay people, but that does not mean I need to agree with their ideology. We can disagree on positions and still respect each other.

Personally, I do not thing gay sex should not be outlawed. I believe in a minimalist government and believe we already have too many laws. Our justice system is overworked, we have too many people incarcerated, and we should decrease the size of our government.
Do yo repudiate the law in Leviticus 20:13 that prescribes death for men caught in homosexual acts?
No, I do not "repudiate" anything in the Bible.
If not, then we can see exactly where persecution of gays has its basis.
The Bible is a factor, but persecution of gays cannot be tied solely to the Bible.
In that case gays should not attend such a church. Heterosexuals shouldn't attend it either.
Yes, if a gay couple in a church wants to get married and the church is not willing to do it, then they should simply leave for another church. There's no reason why heterosexuals should leave also though.
I can cite the point made in the Scientific American article that calling homosexuality a sin has resulted in many gays committing suicide.
It is tragic when anyone commits suicide. But, just because something can lead to suicide does not mean we should completely reject it. Teenage dating and breaking up can result in suicide. Does that mean we should outlaw all teenage dating?
Breakups are believed to be the No. 1 cause of suicides among young people. What could be more serious as a mental health issue?
https://www.inverse.com/article/35834-t ... of-suicide
In addition to anti-gay therapy, it should also ban faith healing. The public health is being jeopardized by Christianity.
We should also ban teenage dating which is a significant factor in a leading cause of death of teenagers. This would be much more beneficial for society than deaths caused by faith healing or anti-gay therapy.

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Post #49

Post by otseng »

SallyF wrote: [Replying to post 39 by otseng]
I know of no Christian that is actively pursuing the death sentence for anyone engaging in homosexual acts.
This charming young person - to the best of my knowledge - identifies as Christian, and I expect that the rest of his family do too.
Yes, one can find a picture for anything. But, who is this kid? Does he really represent all of Christianity, or even .0000001% of Christianity? Is he actively lobbying for the death sentence to be instated in government? Is he a member of Westboro Baptist?

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Post #50

Post by otseng »

Jagella wrote: If I was a Biblical dogmatist, I would need to accept the Bible's barbarism without thinking. As a free-thinking atheist, I can see how terrible the Bible can be and say so. I see my free thought as a big advantage over Bibliolators.
It is a false dichotomy. One does not need to either be a Biblical dogmatist or a free-thinking atheist. Even if one is a Biblical dogmatist, how many actually believe homosexuals should be put to death?

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